MikeyH Posted 29 April , 2014 Share Posted 29 April , 2014 I acquired yesterday for a reasonable figure a 1907 Pattern bayonet in fairly distressed condition. Upon cleaning it up I was pleasantly surprised to find it unit marked to 'RHLI', a Canadian regiment, the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry (Wentworth Regiment). The bayonet carries the makers mark of 'Wilkinson' and the date stamp for September 1918, also the Canadian government symbol of a broad arrow within a 'C'. How widespread was the practice of marking bayonets to the regiment that they were allocated to? Have looked at a number recently and many do not seem to carry these markings. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 29 April , 2014 Share Posted 29 April , 2014 The big P.1907 boys will be chipping in soon, but my own experience is that very few of these bayonets were unit-marked - unit marking of bayonets seems to have been much less common than in the German Empire. IIRC, the Canadian's adopted the SMLE and its P.1907 bayonet after experiencing problems in service with the Ross rifle - I think that decision was made in 1917? In the meantime, can we have a photograph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggoner Posted 29 April , 2014 Share Posted 29 April , 2014 Pending expert advice, I suspect that the regimental markings are post war. The RHLI did not receive this name until 1926. All the best, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 29 April , 2014 Share Posted 29 April , 2014 I've picked up a few regimentally marked 1907 bayonets over the last couple of years. From what I can see markings stopped around 1915, which makes sense as armourers by then had better things to do. Not sure what percentage were marked up to then - 30%??? Looking at 1888's and 1903's also helps to gauge behaviour, they are more frequently marked - 40%??? Any marked 1918 dated bayonets I think could well be post war marks as obviously these would be in good condition for post war service. I have been told that there was a new set of instructions to armourers in the early 30's that changed the abbreviations for regiments. For example I have a 5 '18 dated Chapman marked to 2 N STAF. The WW1and before abbreviation for the North Staffordshire Regiment was N STF. This bayonet has reissue marks for 22, 33 and 38, so looks like the regimental mark was applied in the 30's. Interestingly this bayonet could well have been with the BEF at the start of WW2 and come back via Dunkirk as that regiment was there. The bayonet also has the U and arrow for S African service, so was this applied in 1918? I have very recently acquired 2 more regimentally marked 1917/1918 dated ones, and am still debating WW1 marks or later: 5 '18 Wilkinson marked GMGR / 179. No reissue marks, BUT it has a 1917 dated scabbard with a matching 179 BUT overstamping an earlier number. Guards Machine Gun Regiment was formed in May 1918 and disbanded in 1920. 8 '17 Wilkinson marked R.E. / C.P. / 83. Reissues for 23 and 35. 1916 dated scabbard with matching 83. Any thoughts as to meaning of C.P. gratefull received. I'll post pictures when my new camera interface cable arrives! Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 30 April , 2014 Share Posted 30 April , 2014 Hi Tony, And welcome aboard! Sounds like you have a nice collection there! P.1907's and their markings are not my area and there has to be something somewhere on GWF that has discussed this before. However, the GMR one sounds fine to me, but I have no ideas as to the RE CP one - there was a Ceylon Planters Rifle Corps (I kid you not!), but their rifles (don't know about their bayonets) were marked CPRC... I - and others! - look forward to seeing photographs of the markings! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 30 April , 2014 Share Posted 30 April , 2014 The regimental marking of British bayonets was common during the pre-war period, which is why you see a lot of markings amongst the P1888, P1903 and P1907 (hooked quillon types) bayonets. During the war the practice was less common but still occured, often depending upon the type of unit involved, and the rate of weapon turnover experienced. So the incidence of regimental marking in P1907 bayonets is heavily dependent upon the time period you are talking about. The rate of marking overall that we see now is distorted by the extremely large numbers of these bayonets that were churned out in the latter years of the war, when marking was much less common. As mentioned above some late-war bayonets were also marked during the interwar period. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 30 April , 2014 Share Posted 30 April , 2014 New camera interface cable has arrived! At present of the 3 mentioned above only have access to: 8 '17 Wilkinson marked R.E. / C.P. / 83. Reissues for 23 and 35. 1916 dated scabbard with matching 83. Any thoughts as to meaning of C.P. gratefull received. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 It looks to be a well refurbished P1907 with the original markings appearing quite faint and the later year (interwar) reissue marks heavily overstamped. The regimental stamping does look to be R.E. for the Royal Engineers, but I believe the lower mark may be C.B. which could indicate 'Coast Battalion'. That's about the only possibility that I can think of for a RE unit. Apparently the Coast Battalion was charged with supervising the mine defences of ports. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 Good one S>S>... It did cross my mind that it might be 'Corps of Pioneers', from the time when the RE had pioneer sections, before the Corps proper was established - but the dates do not fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 It could also be something else altogether, as there's always the possibility some extra letters are obscured by the corrosion. The spacings do look a bit odd ... hard to say. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 Thanks for the thoughts. I'm pretty sure it's a P, and that there are no more letters. All I can think so far is that P is for Park. I have a 1903 dated 1 '04 with a reissue for '14 and marked R.E / 1.p / 20. For that I thought maybe it was the 1st Company (Fortress Company), who were pulled from Gibraltar in 1914 and coverted to an Advanced Park Company - bit of a stretch perhaps, but somewhat based on the '14 reissue. I see there was a Field Park (Camouflage) Company set up in 1943, bayonet stamped up in 1943 for them??? Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 Was there a Cinque Ports R.E. unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 S>S, any thoughts on whether a bayonet with unit marks going in for refurbishment would have it's marks struck out if it was not staying with the original regiment? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 Hi Michael, Yes that's a possibility if it is a WW1 marking. From Google: Fortress Companies of the pre-war Territorial Force TF Association Notes City of Aberdeen No 1 Fortress Works Company, part of Scottish Coastal Defences. Landed in France 26 April 1915. Later renamed as 552 (Aberdeen) Army Troops Company RE. Cinque Ports No 1 Electric Light Company, based in Dover and part of South Eastern Coastal Defences. Cinque Ports Fortress Royal Engineers 16 Bench Street, Dover, Kent No 1 (Dover) Electric Light Company Not much is known about this unit. Guess they would have had time to stamp their arms! Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 Michael, They were still around in 1939, so maybe a pre-WW2 stamp. Actually the bayonet was purchased in Kent!!! Cinque Ports Fortress Engineers [3 Sep 1939: HQ Dover]. C onverted by Sep 1940 as 579 th Army Field Coy RE . No. 1 (EL and Works) Coy [3 Sep 1939: Dover] Embodied with Dover Coast Defences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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