TonyE Posted 20 April , 2014 Share Posted 20 April , 2014 Just returned from an excellent trip to the US. I was due to give a paper at the American Society of Military History annual meeting in Kansas City but circumstances conspired and i was unable to get there so a colleague had to give the paper. I did make the annual meeting and show of the International Ammunition Association though. I also managed to fit in a bit of shooting as the pictures below show. The close up of the markings on the MG08/15 are for Mark (and yes, I know the bipod is on back to front! Not my fault though.) The Boys rifle is off topic I realise, but my excuse is that the German T-Gewehr was used in the development of the Boys rifle. When the ammunition was being developed under Captain Boys the British team reloaded German wartime ammunition with British bullets to compare to the original German performance and to establish bullet weight and velocity. We also bought new 13mm ammunition from Sweden. The Boys has shall we say a robust recoil but is not as fearsome as some say. Regards TonyE .. .. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 20 April , 2014 Share Posted 20 April , 2014 Nice pics. Would love to fire a MG 08/15. Nice early one by the looks. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 20 April , 2014 Share Posted 20 April , 2014 Looks to have been an enjoyable trip, and an interesting experience using an array of great weapons. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhunter Posted 20 April , 2014 Share Posted 20 April , 2014 Hi Tony. All the pics that I have seen show the T-Gewehr only being fired from a fire trench, as opposed to lying down. I guess that the recoil buffer in the Boys (which the T-Gewehr lacks) must be what allows one to fire it prone - without breaking any ribs that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Tiger Posted 20 April , 2014 Share Posted 20 April , 2014 Another great trip by the look of it Tony. Firing the MG08/15 would have been the highlight for me but knowing you something found at the annual meeting and show of the International Ammunition Association was possibly your highlight. I can't make the next London meeting on the 30th as I'm in France but we must meet up for a beer/wine when I get back Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 20 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 April , 2014 Hi Tony. All the pics that I have seen show the T-Gewehr only being fired from a fire trench, as opposed to lying down. I guess that the recoil buffer in the Boys (which the T-Gewehr lacks) must be what allows one to fire it prone - without breaking any ribs that is. I did make one mistake. Unbeknown to me a fired case had rolled beneath me and when I fired the next shot the recoil drove me back and the case caught under my breastbone resulting in a few choice words and a large bruise. It was agony to take a deep breath for the next couple of days! Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 21 April , 2014 Share Posted 21 April , 2014 I did make one mistake. Unbeknown to me a fired case had rolled beneath me and when I fired the next shot the recoil drove me back and the case caught under my breastbone resulting in a few choice words and a large bruise. It was agony to take a deep breath for the next couple of days! Regards TonyE ouch, you just reminded me a similar story from 20 years ago. in my case, it was a burn on my neck... It seems that you had fun and i envy you for firing these guns Assaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcom Posted 23 April , 2014 Share Posted 23 April , 2014 Was the T-Gewehr a 2 or 3 crew weapon? Thing must be 40lbs unloaded. @Assaf: I was at a CMP match once and a round ejected from my M1 and somehow came back down my shirt. I was right in the middle of the the rapid fire "in the zone" and finished up...to a pain and jumping around trying to untuck my shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 23 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2014 AFAIK the T-Gewehr had a two man crew. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhunter Posted 23 April , 2014 Share Posted 23 April , 2014 Was the T-Gewehr a 2 or 3 crew weapon? Thing must be 40lbs unloaded. All the pictures that i have seen show it as two-man crew served weapon. 39lbs according to the handbook that I am currently writing for museums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhunter Posted 24 April , 2014 Share Posted 24 April , 2014 On the subject of anti tank weapons, Tony do you have quick description of the German "K" round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 24 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2014 The German designation is "S.m.K" which stands for "Spitzgeschoss mit Stahlkern" or "pointed bullet with Steel core". The core was of tungsten steel with a high carbon content and had a boat tail. Bullet jackets were steel, coated on both sides with about one thou of either cupro-nickel or Tombak (gilding metal) It was identified by a red primer annulus and the inclusion of "K" or "K67" in the headstamp. The bullet weighed 178 grains (11.55g) and was 37.3mm long. Charge weight was 44.7 grains (2.9g) in brass cases and 43.2 grains (2.85g) in steel cases. Velocity from a G98 was 785 metres per second (2575 fps), slightly lower from machine guns, but the average was 2,500 feet per second. A German document dated 28 March 1915 claimed a penetration of 4.5mm of best chrome nickel armour plate at 1400 metres when fired at normal and 4.5mm at 900 metres at 70 degrees. German instructions dated 1915 for the use of SmK rounds stated "With the manufacturing of the K bullet being difficult and expensive, this cartridge must be used only for precision shooting where great penetration is sought. The S.m.K. cartridge is distributed only to marksmen supplied with the Model 98 rifle and telescopic sight. These men must use these cartridges wisely and not give them away. If necessary these cartridges can be fired from a machine gun against a fortified emplacement, armoured shelter or armoured aircraft." It added "Marksmen are exempted from additional duty". Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free1954 Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 Was the T-Gewehr a 2 or 3 crew weapon? Thing must be 40lbs unloaded. @Assaf: I was at a CMP match once and a round ejected from my M1 and somehow came back down my shirt. I was right in the middle of the the rapid fire "in the zone" and finished up...to a pain and jumping around trying to untuck my shirt. i thought they were a three man crew. one man to fire the rifle and the other two to make him fire it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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