assafx Posted 18 April , 2014 Share Posted 18 April , 2014 (edited) During my research of the fighting in Nebi Samwil, I found a fuze http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=206966&hl= (the second one on the post) I was able to ID it as Dopple Zunder 43 sec, a naval gun fuze (see page 160). Up to this point, I did not pay any attention to the question of what was the artillery equipment used by the Turks or the German Expeditionary force in Palestine? Looking for material in libraries in here (Israel), I found nothing, a search on the internet ended with a similar result. so my first question is, if anybody know of a source that can shed a light on that matter? searching through three different sources of photographs, for any cannon which is not Krupp 75mm, 77mm or a 10.5 howitzer. I was able to find a few cannons that raised my curiosity and since i'm not a big expert on the subject i will need some help identifying them. 1. a mountain gun (source: mason collection, Library of congress) the scan is good and the tiff file is quite large. another photograph with mountain guns (same type?) was found in the Australian war memorial. 2. this battery is much more relevant to my thesis because of it's location, here's another look (same source as #1). could it be 8.7 cm krupp c80? 3. and now to the big naval gun, i found a few photographs of the same gun/s: a) 1st IWM photograph, 2nd, 1st Australian war memorial, 2nd, 3rd, 4th (not sure it's the same gun). 4. at first look they seems to be french 75mm but i'm just guessing here: LOC, 2nd LOC and IWM. 5. I also found this gun which i believe is a 75mm Ehrhardt gebirskanone m.14. this reminds me, that I don't know a thing about the Austrian artillery units in palestine Thank You Assaf Edited 18 April , 2014 by Assaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 18 April , 2014 Share Posted 18 April , 2014 If you look through this listing of surviving 'war trophy' guns in Australia you will find many Turkish guns which were captured in Palestine. Some have photos and information on the different models. http://www.ammsbrisbane.com/ajax/war_trophies/war_trophies_ww1_guns.html Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 18 April , 2014 Share Posted 18 April , 2014 Hi, I'm not an artillery expert but the gun in 1. does look like the Krupps 10.5 Mountain gun. I do know that in 1916 some were shipped to the Turks for use in the Middle-East, including two from Sturmbattalion Rohr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 18 April , 2014 Share Posted 18 April , 2014 Actually a Hungarian artillery unit - see http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=166156#entry1616727 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 18 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2014 If you look through this listing of surviving 'war trophy' guns in Australia you will find many Turkish guns which were captured in Palestine. Some have photos and information on the different models. http://www.ammsbrisbane.com/ajax/war_trophies/war_trophies_ww1_guns.html Cheers, S>S I couldn't find the naval guns in the list but it does look that number 5 on my list is probably the 75mm Ehrhardt gebirskanone m.14 ! but now i'm confused regarding #2, could it be 9cm C/73 Feldkanone and not 8.7 cm krupp c80? Thank You ! Assaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 18 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2014 Hi, I'm not an artillery expert but the gun in 1. does look like the Krupps 10.5 Mountain gun. I do know that in 1916 some were shipped to the Turks for use in the Middle-East, including two from Sturmbattalion Rohr. I am sorry but I'm confused, the first item on my list is a mountain gun. are we talking about what the different photographs say is a naval gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 18 April , 2014 Share Posted 18 April , 2014 I am sorry but I'm confused, the first item on my list is a mountain gun. are we talking about what the different photographs say is a naval gun? The first photo on your list is of a gun too small to be a normal field gun and is almost certain to be some form of mountain or infantry weapon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 18 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2014 (edited) The first photo on your list is of a gun too small to be a normal field gun and is almost certain to be some form of mountain or infantry weapon it looks small enough to be a mountain gun. since i have a 65mm shell piece found on the British side of the line, i wonder if a battery such as this was firing at nebi samwil from one of the hills around. since i don't know which guns the Turks were using, i have no clue if it belongs to a Turkish gun or maybe it's a British mountain gun that fired too short... Actually a Hungarian artillery unit - see http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=166156#entry1616727 Thank you for the correction regarding the Hungarian unit. if i may, what was the source that you used regarding the destruction of the tank? what can you tell me about the gun they were using? Thanks ! Edited 18 April , 2014 by Assaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 18 April , 2014 Share Posted 18 April , 2014 .. Thank you for the correction regarding the Hungarian unit. if i may, what was the source that you used regarding the destruction of the tank? Thanks ! There is a link in one of my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 18 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2014 There is a link in one of my posts. http://blog.xfree.hu/myblog.tvn?SID=&pid=129398&n=lambert&blog_cim=Magyar%20csapatok%20Jeruzs%E1lemben,%201916 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 22 April , 2014 Share Posted 22 April , 2014 Looking carefully at the photo, there seems to be a foresight sticking up on side of the muzzle. I think this would make it an Austro-Hungarian 7 cm M99 Mtn Gun. The definitive work on Austro-Hungarian artillery is Ortner's 'The Austro-Hungarian Artillery from 1867 to 1918'. A mighty tome available in English and German.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 22 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2014 Looking carefully at the photo, there seems to be a foresight sticking up on side of the muzzle. I think this would make it an Austro-Hungarian 7 cm M99 Mtn Gun. The definitive work on Austro-Hungarian artillery is Ortner's 'The Austro-Hungarian Artillery from 1867 to 1918'. A mighty tome available in English and German.. i just looked at it in amazon. sadly they don't send it to israel, another placed i looked at wanted 230$ before shipment. Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoplophile Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 You can find lots of information on Austro-Hungarian artillery in a wartime French publication called Bulletin de Renseignements d'Artillerie, particularly issues 3, 5, and 7. All twenty issues of this series can be found on Gallica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 3 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2014 You can find lots of information on Austro-Hungarian artillery in a wartime French publication called Bulletin de Renseignements d'Artillerie, particularly issues 3, 5, and 7. All twenty issues of this series can be found on Gallica. This looks like a good source. Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieBris Posted 6 May , 2014 Share Posted 6 May , 2014 Responding to the original post. 1. The Ottoman Army had two different mountain guns before WW1 - the 7.5cm Krupp M1892 (no recoil absorption) and the 7.5cm Krupp M04. The first image looks like the older gun and the AWM image is a battery of M04s. There were a fair number (450) of the M1892 mountain guns built in the Imperial Arsenal in Istanbul. 2. 9cm was the nominal calibre - it was 8.7cm. The Ottoman Army's standard field gun before the Krupp M03s was the 8.7(9)cm Krupp M80. Not only did they import them (790) but also built them under licence (130). 3. The guns look more like Krupp Ringkanones than Naval Guns. Turkey acquired a number of 12cm L/40 M00 guns - could be those. 4. Hard to tell but it could be a Schneider PD07 - the barrel was similar to the Mle 1897. Turkey acquired 50 odd Schneiders by intercepting a shipment intended for Serbia in 1912. 5. Again hard to tell - it could be an Enrhardt gun but also the 75mm Skoda GebK M16 or 7.5cm Krupp GebK M13 - both of these mountain guns were sent to Turkey during the war. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 7 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2014 Responding to the original post. 1. The Ottoman Army had two different mountain guns before WW1 - the 7.5cm Krupp M1892 (no recoil absorption) and the 7.5cm Krupp M04. The first image looks like the older gun and the AWM image is a battery of M04s. There were a fair number (450) of the M1892 mountain guns built in the Imperial Arsenal in Istanbul. 2. 9cm was the nominal calibre - it was 8.7cm. The Ottoman Army's standard field gun before the Krupp M03s was the 8.7(9)cm Krupp M80. Not only did they import them (790) but also built them under licence (130). 3. The guns look more like Krupp Ringkanones than Naval Guns. Turkey acquired a number of 12cm L/40 M00 guns - could be those. 4. Hard to tell but it could be a Schneider PD07 - the barrel was similar to the Mle 1897. Turkey acquired 50 odd Schneiders by intercepting a shipment intended for Serbia in 1912. 5. Again hard to tell - it could be an Enrhardt gun but also the 75mm Skoda GebK M16 or 7.5cm Krupp GebK M13 - both of these mountain guns were sent to Turkey during the war. Regards, Charlie Charlie, Thank you for your detailed answer. can i ask for the source you used for the numbers of cannons? regarding #2, is it safe to assume that the Ottoman army also manufactured shells for this gun? Thanks Assaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieBris Posted 8 May , 2014 Share Posted 8 May , 2014 There is a list at: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=109530&start=15 The numbers and types seem to have been derived from Turkish publications and Krupp's export book. For a few gun types the numbers seem pretty solid based on the serials of surviving Turkish guns especially the 75mm Krupp M03/M09, 12cm and 15cm howitzers. Yes the Ottomans did make shells and fuses - there are examples of 75mm fuses with Arabic inscriptions. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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