sandyford Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 Desmond, Ralph & Robert have posted very interesting information about German troops and the Schwaben Redoubt. I was astonished to see the POW listings. I am interested in the 51st Reserve Division who are shown on various battle maps facing the Northumberlands at the Battle of St. Julien 26/04/15 (2nd Ypres). Various accounts have said that on that day the battlefield was bombarded by German troops in Oblong Farm and Kitcheners Wood. Is there information about these troops and the smaller units which made up the 51st Res. Div. or were the documents among those which were destroyed? Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 I would also be very interested in this. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 12 October , 2004 Share Posted 12 October , 2004 The 51st Reserve Division consisted of four regiments of infantry (233rd Reserve, 234th Reserve, 235th Reserve and 236th Reserve) and the 23rd Reserve Jäger Battalion. The division artillery consisted of the 51st Reserve Field Artillery Regiment. The official documents regarding thiese units were destroyed in the bombings of WWII as it is a Prussian Division. The records from Württemberg and Bavaria are fortunately still in existence. However, the regiments of the division have written regimental histories: Brendler, Wilhelm: Kriegserlebnisse 1914-1918 im Reserve Infanterie Regiment Nr. 233 (Aus Deutschlands Grosser Zeit Band 2) Sporn, Zeulenroda, 1929. Knieling, Lutz, Bölsche, Arnold: RIR 234, Ein Querschnitt durch Deutschlands Schicksalsringen. (Aus Deutschlands Grosser Zeit Band 31). Sporn, Zeulenroda, 1931. Hennig, Otto: Das Reserve Infanterie Regiment Nr. 235 im Weltkriege. Errinnerungsbläter Preussen, Band 344. Stalling, Oldenburg, 1931. Mayer, Arthu, Görtz, Josef: Das Reserve Infanterie Regiment Nr. 236 im Weltkrieg. (Aus Deutschlands Grosser Zeit Band 112). Sporn, Zeulenroda, 1939. I do not believe that the Jäger Battalion has a written history and I cannot tell you if one exists for the field artillery as well. Unfortunately I do not have any of these regimentals, hopefully someone else on the forum might have access to them. I have not seen the books so I cannot tell what they contain but i am sure there are details of these events that might prove interesting. I believe I have a photo album from an officer in either the 51st Reserve or 52nd Reserve Division for this period as many of the photos show the aftermath of the gas attacks with enemy (Canadian and French) dead, trench scenes, etc. I will have to dig it out and see if I can identify the units in it. Sorry I could not be more helpful in your request. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 12 October , 2004 Share Posted 12 October , 2004 The histories of the divisions of the German Army only says that they were in that area of Ypres for the whole of 1915. No other details sorry. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 12 October , 2004 Share Posted 12 October , 2004 Similarly the Battleground Europe book 'St Julian', which only documents the location of the 51st Reserve Division during various phases of Second Ypres. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 12 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 12 October , 2004 Ralph Thank you the information about the regiments. 233-236 Reserve, is something new for me. One of the letters home in a local newspaper mentions that they had encountered, 'the crack Prussian Guard' I have always regarded this statement with cynicism, but it was a phrase which made me curious. It is a small sign of hope that there are Regimental Histories for some of these units. The photograph album sounds wonderful. Searches on the net for Erste Weltkrieg and Kriegtagesbuch in various spellings and Ypres, Wieltje etc.. with my very, very elementary German have not shown much information about this. There are mentions of the use of gas. I'm afraid that I only know this because the words, gas, Ypres, Wieltje and 1915 are within my powers of translation. Robert - I have the Battleground Europe - St. Julien book and have found it excellent. Although the 51st/52nd Reserve Divisions are mentioned and listed, as you say, there is no detail. I must have another look at the Canadian War Diaries in case they are more specific about the German units. Thank you for giving me this information. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gregory Posted 12 October , 2004 Share Posted 12 October , 2004 Kate, The following is taken from the RIR 234 regimental history for the period concerned: Under heavy enemy artillery fire on the captured trenches and St. Julien, digging work began, which was to continue day and night to convert the trenches for defence purposes and to make them habitable. Already during the night from 25 to 26 April, the position was moved further forward by digging a trench to the village exit towards Fortuin and occupied by the 3rd battalion, which was now brought forward. The next 2 days, the 26 and 27 April, were used to strengthen the position further and to develop it for defence, which the continuous heavy enemy artillery fire did not prevent us from doing. However, we didn’t want to remain sitting here with mothing to do for long. Already during the night from 26 to 27 April, the Pioniere of the gas party came up in long lines with their gas canisters and began to install them in the first trench along the entire line. This work was done with such haste that the installation work was already completed by the morning of 28 April. By 26 April, the regimental command post and the auxiliary dressing station had been transferred to the first houses in St Julien, while the main dressing station remained in the “In den Hast” house on the old square. Trust this will help. All the best, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 12 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 12 October , 2004 David - wonderful. Thank you so much for finding this. In the 'In Flanders Field' museum there is displayed a diary or part of a diary of a German officer named, I think, Lange. He was not in action on the days I have just enquired about, but his diary seemed to me to be May 1915. The diary has sketches of the Van Heule Farm area. I could not read the text. This officer must have belonged to one of the regiments which Ralph has mentioned and perhaps even RIR 234. The reference to possible sitting around with nothing to do is interesting considering the position on the Allied side of the line. Thank you again. Your translation skills are excellent. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 Hope these are of interest, 2 award certificates for the Iron Cross 2nd class to 51st div regiments, one signed at Corps level, one at divisional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 ree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gregory Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 Your translation skills are excellent. Kate Kate, Thanks for the compliment - I earn my living as a translator and interpreter. Unfortunately, at the moment this leaves me very little time to translate what I like to do best, namely this sort of stuff. Nice documents Chris, I'll send you some reference material as requested. ttfn, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 Hello, I've got most of the regimental histories concerned. However, I do not have the time to either take copies or translate anything. I just can give you all who are interested in the German side one advice: learn German! (and learn to read Fraktur and Sütterlin) Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 13 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2004 Chris The two certificates are very interesting. I had not realised that there were awards at Corps & Divisional level. The Corps certificate has the the Von Hugel signature. What is the signature on the Divisional certificate? David I have been checking the Allied accounts to see how the account in the German regimental history of the preparation of the gas cylinders being completed by the 28th April ties into events. It seems that the wind was not favourable for a day or two. The gas was deployed in some accounts late in the day on May 1st & certainly on May 2nd between Turco Farm and Fortuin and May 2nd is of course when Pte. John Lynn won the V.C. Jan Yes - I would love to be able to read the German accounts. At the moment I sit with a German dictionary by my side. I am certainly put to shame by your fluency with English. However, my own ineptitude with the German language does not put me off trying, because to give up would be to ignore the experience of half of the troops who were present in WW1. Regards Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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