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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Cartridge Markings - a few questions


Simon Brown

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Sorry to ask but hoped some of the forum experts might check / answer a couple of questions about the three in the pic below.

post-104377-0-36943600-1394145018_thumb.

I have found a lot of info on the net and a big list of factories etc, but regarding these three..

Top Left - I cannot find on any internet lists which maker is Do - can anyone assist please?

Top Right - Am I right that R crows foot L is the Royal Laboratory Woolwich with the war department sign. Bit that puzzles me is I first thought it was stamped 8 / 14 indicating August 1914 but more I look at it the more I think it is a B. If it is a B what would it stand for.

Finally on bottom one would this be Greenwood & Batley from 1916?

Man thanks

Si

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Sorry to ask but hoped some of the forum experts might check / answer a couple of questions about the three in the pic below.

attachicon.gifcartridge heads 001.jpg

I have found a lot of info on the net and a big list of factories etc, but regarding these three..

Top Left - I cannot find on any internet lists which maker is Do - can anyone assist please?

Top Right - Am I right that R crows foot L is the Royal Laboratory Woolwich with the war department sign. Bit that puzzles me is I first thought it was stamped 8 / 14 indicating August 1914 but more I look at it the more I think it is a B. If it is a B what would it stand for.

Finally on bottom one would this be Greenwood & Batley from 1916?

Man thanks

Si

The one on the left is german. R ^ L is Royal Laboratories, B is probably Brock but 1914 is a bit early for that, I no longer collect cartridges, gave all my notes away. Greenwood & Batley was usualy G & B or G. B. There were a lot of funny head stamps in the early years of the war, I've even seen pre war ammo overstamped.

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Hi Simon

Tony Edwards is the man for this.

Send him a PM & I'm sure he will help

Andy

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I agree TonyE is the man here as Andy says.

.

I think you are correct on G as Greenwood and Bately Ltd Leeds 1916

Might B be for "Buckingham" (incendiary) but I think 1914 might be too early for that?

B as a manufacturer would be Birmingham Metal and Munitions I think but why would that be there as well as the R^L?

not sure.....wait for TonyE.

Chris

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Thank you gentlemen.

"DO" on the 7.92 x 57mm case is Dornheim of Suhl.

The double stamped .303 case was made by Birmingham Metals and Munitions Co. in 1914 but loaded at Royal Laboratory, Woolwich. Movement of components was quite common and Woolwich loaded both other contractors' cases and made cases from metal supplied by other contractors. I have a live round of the one illustrated. It is a bit odd though that the mark numeral seems incomplete; perhaps it was a reject case.

The "B" stamp cannot be Brock because Brock rounds were not specifically marked. Most were loaded on ordinary ball cases headstamped "E 16 VII". Buckingham incendiary rounds were headstamped with a "B" suffix to the Mark numeral, i.e. "VIIB", but as stated 1914 is too early for this.

The final case is indeed Greenwood & Batley. They had used both "G" and "GB" since about 1891 and it is thought that it signified two different production lines.

Regards

TonyE

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A very big thank you to you all. Interesting stuff, especially about how the .303 came to have two factory marks on it.

One question for Tony, and apologies in advance if I am asking a stupid question; but you say that a possible reason for the mark numeral being incomplete is that it may have been a reject case. If it was rejected how would it end up having been fired and in a muddy field on the Western Front?

Thank you again

Si

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I was merely wondering if the poor stamp of the "VII" would have caused the case to be rejected at BMMCo. and then sent to Woolwich for loading, but it was no more than a thought. Birmingham had some quality control problems in the early part of the war as they expanded production to meet wartime needs.

Whether that was the case or not, once it had been loaded at Woolwich it obviously passed inspection there which was why it ended up where it did.

I have not seen anything in writing about what happened to cases with poor headstamping, but cases with small physical imperfections that were rejected for ball ammunition were usually loaded as blanks, grenade dischargers or igniters.

Regards

TonyE

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Thank you for clarifying that Tony, and apologies if I did come across as questioning your judgement; which was defo not what I intended. Sort of got a bit hooked last night cleaning them up and these three were frustrating me a little bit. May clean a few more up tonight and see what their markings are.

Thanks very much

Si

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