French railway gun

[DJM]

One of my mother's aunts married a French infantryman in 1915 (39th infantry regiment). Both long since passed away, but in a box of assorted pictures at said aunt's house were two postcards of a railway gun with attendent french soldiers, and a rather disturbing photo of french soldiers filling in a mass war grave somewhere.

Above is the better of the two images of the railway gun - any ideas what it might have been - French, or a captured German piece with French soldiers checking it out? I can't find anything similar on the internet with a similarly large bore and short barrel (unless this is just perspective error).

[jay dubaya]

No image this end...

[DJM]

Whoops! Edit submitted with image properly attached

[RobL]

Definitely French - looks like 370mm mle 1915

[centurion]

The big French railway guns had no hydraulic recoils as this gun appears to have but used the relatively crude Schneider sliding carriage. Looks most like one of the British 12 inch railway guns. Possibly French artillerymen being shown over a British gun?

[DJM]

thanks RobL and Centurion. Maybe I should try and scan the other image tomorrow and add that to the thread. Late here downunder.

[RobL]

Definitely not British. Here is another photo of a 370mm with French crew

http://www.passioncompassion1418.com/decouvertes/ImagesDecouvertes/370FrRail.jpg

[calibre792x57.y]

Looks like a French St Chamond 400-mm rail gun. -SW

[Khaki]

Great photo, always enjoy artillery images

thanks

khaki

[SteveMarsdin]

Here's one courtesy of the French government's site (ECPAD), been fired in the Marne area:

[DJM]

Thanks all for you input. Here is the second postcard, presumably of the same gun in firing position.

[DJM]

Apparently, following threads about other similar guns in the WWII-focussed Axis History Forum, this is a Saint Chamond 400mm modèle 1915 - a former 340 mm modèle 1887 rebored to 400 mm. Eight of these were constructed using navy guns taken from the decommissioned battle ship "Brennus" and armored coast battleships "Valmy"and "Jemmapes" and placed on Saint-Chamond mountings. They survived WWI and were used again by the French army in WWII.

[CharlieBris]

I tend to agree - 400mm St-Chamond Mle 1915 (Obusier de 400mm Mle 1915/1916 sur affüt à Berceau Saint-Chamond). There's a massive wooden framework placed

under the tracks to absorb the recoil. The 400mm railway gun was first introduced into service during Verdun - a pair of them put rounds through the top of Fort Douaumont

which forced the German evacuation of the fort. Six of them were used by the Wehrmacht during the Siege of Leningrad in WW2.

(http://landships/landships/railway_articles.html?load=railway_articles/400mm_Saint-Chamond.html)

Regards,

Charlie

[gbillington]

Apparently, following threads about other similar guns in the WWII-focussed Axis History Forum, this is a Saint Chamond 400mm modèle 1915 - a former 340 mm modèle 1887 rebored to 400 mm. Eight of these were constructed using navy guns taken from the decommissioned battle ship "Brennus" and armored coast battleships "Valmy"and "Jemmapes" and placed on Saint-Chamond mountings. They survived WWI and were used again by the French army in WWII.

Hi DJM

This is really interesting. Great pictures. Please excuse my ignorance but I am astounded that a gun could be rebored by 60mm. Would have thought the increased charge, shell weight would have ripped the barrel to pieces. Just shows there is always a great deal more we can learn.

Thanks

Guy

[RodB]

Naval guns in the years prior to WWI were designed to fire heavy armour-piercing shells at high velocity on a fairly flat trajectory to defeat the increasingly thick armour on enemy ships. They had to be very heavily constructed to withstand the firing stresses. Howitzers in contrast were needed to dump high-explosive shells, which were lighter, at shorter ranges at high trajectories on top of the enemy. Terminal velocity didn't matter. Hence howitzers fired lighter shells using much smaller propellant charges which placed much less strain on a gun barrel for a given calibre. Britain also used this trick to produce a useful if heavy 8-inch howitzer by shortening and boring out old 6-inch naval gun barrels. It was also fairly common that a carriage designed for a particular calibre of field gun was shared by a larger calibre field howitzer because the howitzer was by default lighter than the equivalent field gun.

[RodB]

Diagrams from Railway Artillery: A Report on the Characteristics, Scope of Utility, Etc., of Railway Artillery, Volume I, page 75 by Harry W Miller, United States Army Ordnance Department. Washington, Government Print Office, 1921. Downloaded from http://www.archive.org/details/railwayartiller00deptgoog

[gbillington]

Hi RodB Many thanks for the additional information. Regards Guy