Salonika to Macedonia RAMC Nov 1915

[LinaMoffitt]

What would it have been like walking from Salonika to Macedonia? How long would it have taken?

I assume since the person in question arr Salonika late Nov 1915 it would have been very cold.

He was with an RAMC unit.

and, I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what was happening in Macedonia then, why did he go there?

many thanks

Lina

[Kate Wills]

Lina,

He was going up country from the port of arrival. Salonika is the principal city of the Macedonia region, but the actual fighting front was much further north, near Lake Doiran.

Yes it was cold, and became much colder as the winter wore on. Do you know his actual unit? Only four divisions, 22, 26, 27 and 28 landed on the opening of this new front in November 1915, so he has to have served with one of them.

[apwright]

I think most went up by train, at least as far as the frontier, which would have taken 4-5 hours perhaps. (The only figures I have immediately to hand say that the French took 9-10 hrs to get to Demir Kapu by train, which is roughly twice as far.)

After the retreat in mid-December, most men seem to have walked back the 40 miles from Doiran to Salonika in the freezing rain and snow. "Under the Devil's Eye" mentions figures of 6-8 miles per day, so 5-7 days' march.

Kate ... don't forget 10th Division, which was the first to land and was the only British division that actually went up to Serbia before December, when elements of 22nd went up to help.

Adrian

[centurion]

Just to make matters confusing there is the Greek region of Macedonia and next door is the country whose inhabitants call it The Republic of Macedonia but which the Greeks refuse to recognise as such and refer to as The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (isn't it nice to see how the good old Balkan traditions of friendship are still being maintained after over a hundred years of regional good will?) Salonika is now called Thessaloniki‎ and is the capital of Greek Macedonia. In WW1 the fighting was in both Macedonias and the theatre was sometimes referred to a Macedonia and some times as Salonika depending on who was doing the referring and to who. This needs to be born in mind when reading accounts, especially informal contemporary ones as it is possible to misinterpret

[LinaMoffitt]

thanks everyone

he said he walked from Salonika to Macedonia (a doctor with RAMC)

He was with an ASC unit - I worked out from the LLT website that this could be a MAC and the only seems to be 17 MAC (595 Company ASC)

what do you think?

regards

Lina

[centurion]

It depends on what he meant/understood by Macedonia. At face value it's rather like saying walked from Edinburgh to Scotland! If however he meant walked to the Macedonian Front that's a different matter.

[apwright]

According to the Official History: Medical Services, the ambulances of 17 MAC landed on 5 Nov, but with only one NCO and 6 men. The rest of the men arrived on 26 Nov, by which time only 2 of the 50 ambulances were still serviceable. They had been "left exposed to the blizzard which commenced on the 26th November. Twelve were missing altogether, fourteen had cracked cylinders, and the others had minor damages." The history doesn't mention them heading north in 1915.

10th Division went up to Serbia with Nos. 30, 31 and 32 Field Ambulances (which crossed into Serbia) and No.25 Casualty Clearing Station (which stayed near Doiran on the Greek side). 30 and 31 FA had two ambulances each, while 32 had none serviceable. 25 CCS had lorries (maybe driven by ASC??).

I'd recommend downloading Vol.IV of the Medical Services history from https://archive.org/details/medicalservicesg04macp
and starting with pp.114-117 in particular.

Adrian

[AndyR]

Hi Lina

I’ve transcribed the diary of William Knott which is held by the National Archives. He was with the 32^nd Field Ambulance and while they went up to the front in large part by train, they walked all the way back – the journey seeming to have taken 6 days, the account below reports that he was glad of the rest at the end!

First his account going 7^th – 10^th November and then coming back 11^th – 18^th December (I’ve included the day before and the day after)

I think it gives a very good impression of what the experience was like!

Andy

Sun Nov 7^th – Got marching orders so cleared hospital & demolished our comfortable bivouac.

Mon Nov 8^th – When all was loaded, we put on our kits and off we marched 8 miles to a railway station west of the city, it was a hard march for the officers riding had no mercy on poor ‘Tommy’ with his pack.

After dinner on the road-side, mid bargainings with hawkers, we loaded on wagons on a train of open trucks. Soon we were speeding toward the Serbian Frontier in company with a water-cart for we were all in the open trucks amongst the luggage. The further we went the more hilly the surroundings got; but at length darkness veiled from us any view of the country. About midnight we detrained at Ghevgeli and rested our weary limbs in a field close to the station while a heavy dew fell drenching us to the skin.

Tues Nov 9th – At dawn we rose finding ourselves alongside a large building converted in a French hospital. The station was guarded by elderly Serbian soldiers. We marched away into Serbia, the road was a mass of thick mud owing to heavy rainfall making marching heavy. Passing over a bridge spanning the swift flowing Vardar River we got on a winding track which increased our difficulties, in fact one wagon went in to the axle and much delay was caused in extricating it. After rounding many hills we eventually reached a deserted village, Bogdanci where we broke into a large school and laid down our weary limbs to rest. Though the distance was but 6 miles, the heavy nature of the ground made it as bad as an ordinary 15 miles march.

On approaching the village, we are confronted with a new aspect of warfare not hitherto experienced. Coming in on the main road there is nothing to welcome us save the moans of unmilked, half-starved cattle, starved cats, dogs and chickens, bones protruding, the cries of which were pitiful to hear. The houses contained furniture and little antiques all deserted and at our mercy. When darkness came, many chickens were put out of their misery by ‘Tommy’. The tower of the church had suffered from shells also many houses.

Wed Nov 10^th – At 4.45 a.m. we were aroused, groping our way down the roadway to the cookhouse and returning spilt half our tea, splashing through the mud. We were on our way again at 6.15am following the track which wended its way through thickly wooded passes along edges of precipices on either side the mountains towering above. Suddenly we would turn into a ravine along which sped a swift stream through which we would wade as best we could. All at once we rounded a hill that brought us out of the range, and in front presented a magnificent view. Down in the hollow lay the vast Lake Doiran with its town on the hillside, to the left is a high range, separating us from Bulgaria while the range from which we have come divides Serbia & Greece. After a nine mile march, one of the best I have had for wonderful scenery, we pitch our ‘bivvy’ in the South Eastern corner of Serbia, some 100 yards from the lake, surrounded by blackberry bushes but it was not long before they were devoid of fruit. Serbia’s welcome night was a drenching downpour of rain.

Sat Dec 11^th - Were all aroused at 2.30 a.m. and once again leave the field of operations, marching to Doiran Station (10 miles) without a halt. Here we joined the main body and were informed we were marching to Salonica. Bert and I slipped away and had a bathe in the lake, coming back to find them all fallen in. A narrow escape!

Sun Dec 12^th - Joined our Brigade at 3.30 a.m. but it was 2 p.m. before we commenced our long journey. Over hills, wading streams, struggling through thick undergrowth, until we reached Killindir (7 miles away) where we rested. Our sympathetic leader made us carry stretchers, thus making our burden heavy, for full kit was bad enough.

Mon Dec 13^th - We continued our march for about 8 miles, first fairly flat country practically following the railway, then we bore to the left and went up along the steady ascent reaching a high altitude before resting for dinner. After a further 2 miles uphill climb we rested the night. Hundreds of infantry fell exhausted by the way.

Teus Dec 14^th - On again, over hill and down dale, passing two villages for 5 miles when we again reached our nightly abode, a town Sari Queul where we expected to entrain.

Wed Dec 15^th - Hung about all day feeding on the unchanging diet of the past week - 'bully' and biscuits - sometimes a tin of jam between 6 or 7.

Thurs Dec 16^th - We learn that owing to an accident we must track the remainder and to add to our discomfort it commenced to rain in torrents. So on we trudged over ploughed fields sodden with rain, climbing and slipping up muddy slopes, sinking over a foot in water in places. With no water to drink we were compelled to drink from the rain pools which the preceding column had marched through or suck snow. By the time I had marched the 8 miles I was wet through to the skin including overcoat and when we halted in a dilapidated cemetery for the night we could do nothing but stand and let it rain for the ground was in pools. We all gathered round in a circle and sang in defiance to the rain. Darkness came, I was so weary I could stand no longer getting 4 blankets wet through. I lay down behind a tombstone and try to sleep having vision of consumption, pneumonia, influenza, etc. and the rain came pitter, patter down!!

Fri Dec 17^th - I woke stiff and cold, which I overcame by exercise, then off we started on the last lap, the worst of the lot, for having to sleep in wet socks and boots, the skin of our feet was all in wrinkles, consequently every step was pain. Fortunately the rain stopped, and range after range, field after field was tramped until we were little better than moving mud saturated from head to foot. Still the exercise warmed our bodies, but for this we know not what would have happened. At last we ascend a range and there in the distance is Salonica. It must have been a similar thrill to a desert traveller approaching civilization that ran through us and braced us for this last lap. After the worst 16 mile march of my experience we arrived in the camp erected for us, the tents were never more welcomed. Thus we retreated from Serbia, completed about 61 miles, the 22nd Division having formed a new line between Sari Queul and Killindir

Sat Dec 18^th - A day's rest for which I'm very thankful for my limbs feel the effects of my soaking. My word, what a change in Salonica and its surroundings. Besides 4 new divisions 22, 26, 27 and 28 landing, also thousands of French. The roads were lined with base hospitals, ammunition stores, supply stores of huge stacks so 40ft. high of bully beef, biscuits, milk, jam and other necessaries, huge bakeries, long strings of motor lorries, ASC convoys, infantry limbers, while the harbour is packed with hospital ships, transports, warships, launches for the staff, in fact, it is a revolution for Orientalism into military organization, even the city is under army supervision, the streets being cleaner now than they have been I should imagine for centuries.