Pte 3743 Charles William HORSNELL / 5th Dragoon Guards

[John Malam]

Can anyone tell me where to find the enlistment records of the 5th Dragoon Guards?

I'm researching Pte 3743 Charles William HORSNELL 5DG, enlisted Warley, Essex. I'm after his date of enlistment. Born 1890; died Messines 17 November 1914.

Also, he's missing from the 1911 census -- both the census of England and the census of Ireland (I believe the 5DG were stationed at the Curragh, Ireland, in 1911). Can anyone suggest why he might be missing from the census data? Were any units of the 5DG outside GB in 1911?

The surname can also appear as HORSWELL and HORSNAIL, just to complicate things!

Thanks for any help,

John

[Coldstreamer]

have you tried ancestry or the NA for his papes ?

and he could have been on an attachment - Ive medals to a Coldstreamer who spent some time in Australia!

[John Malam]

I've tried multiple searches on Ancestry and have him in the 1901 census, but nothing in the 1911 in any of the surname variants. The NA has the 5DG War Diary which has given broad details of movements Aug-Nov 1914, and notes his death in November 1914 at Messines. But, I can't find details of his enlistment -- and suggestions where to look? If he was on attachment, how could I track him down?

Thanks,

John

[Pat Atkins]

Have you tried tracking down his enlistment date via his army number? Great site here which might help: http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/

Pat

[John Malam]

Thanks, Pat.

That's a useful site which suggests he enlisted after an army number re-ordering in 1906. My best guess is he enlisted in 1908, aged 18 -- but I'm still seeking evidence of this.

John

[Ellis1918]

Try a search on Ancestry for SWB lists for 5th Dragoon Guards - Look for service numbers close to his

SWB list will show enlistment & discharge dates

[John Malam]

Thanks Ellis1918.

The SWB list on Ancestry only lists 2 men from the 5DG, and frustratingly the record is short -- does not give enlistment dates.

It's now looking like the records were destroyed in the 1940 fire.

I'll keep head scratching.

[Coldstreamer]

I thought all swb lists had enlistment dates ? or is that just for the Coldstream ?

[spof]

I found these enlistment dates for 5DG men on the SWB lists

3689 Private James Philip Robert 31-Aug-09
3733 Private Brown George William 07-Sep-09

[John Malam]

Brigadier-General -- thank you!

I was searching for '5th Dragoon Guards' (2 results), but when I tried '5th D Gds' 122 results came up. Enlistment dates either side of my man look like this:

3733 Pte George William Brown enlisted 7 Sept 09

3743 Pte Charles William Horsnell (my man)

3863 Pte Henry Charles Coakley 20 Sept 07

3874 Pte John Paxton 17 Aug 14

It's tempting to think Horsnell enlisted in 1909 (aged 18/19) as he's only 10 numbers after Brown. But, how do you account for Coakley, 120 after Horsnell, but enlisted in 1907, 2 years before Brown?

Are the regt numbers genuinely sequential? Are there other factors to consider, such as different recruiting stations?

Thanks,

John