mick57 Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 I think my weary great grandmother Mary Anne Donovan carried this with her a lot, looking at its condition, the second of her three sons to die. Not sure which he is .but am betting man on the rear left ,family similarities. Can anyone name the ship? Cant make the cap out.. I have his discharge papers. Attached to the Plymouth div. he died of wounds on 20/07/15 in the Gallipoli campaign and is buried at Chatby Egypt. I would dearly love to know the action and circumstances of his death. Any source of other pictures etc. No names on photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 RND, Plymouth Battalion DONOVAN, Stephen, Private, RMLI, 17357 (Ply), DOW MORGAN, George A, Private, RMLI, S 69 (Ply), DOW in HS Grantully Castle Seems he died of wounds. Do you know where he is buried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 It is possible he was wounded Tuesday 13/7/15 at a battle of Helles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 None of the men in the photo is RMLI. They are all naval ratings. DONOVAN may have been a casualty of 13 July but he could have been wounded earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 There seems to be an error in the CWGC record for his Division Number DONOVAN, STEPHEN. Rank: Private. Service No: P/Y117357. Date of Death: 20/07/1915. Age: 27. Regiment/Service: Royal Marine Light Infantry. Plymouth Bn. R.N. Div. Grave Reference: L. 117. Cemetery: ALEXANDRIA (CHATBY) MILITARY AND WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Mary Donovan, of 75, Upper Dominick St., Dublin, and the late Stephen Donovan. Born at Cork. Obviously it should read PLY but also it is a 6 figure number which seems inconsistent.. So I had a look at those with similar numbers to those shown in the original post as 17357 and found.... DOYLE, THOMAS JOSEPH. Rank: Private. Service No: PLY/17356. Date of Death: 03/03/1917. Age: 21. Regiment/Service: Royal Marine Light Infantry. 2nd R.M. Bn. R.N. Div. Grave Reference: XXI. L. 2. Cemetery: ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Bridget and the late John Doyle, of 24, Clonmore Rd., Ballylough, Dublin. Native of Ballylough. Served with Royal Naval Division at Gallipoli. which made me think that Doyle could be a good friend of Stephens and also of this chap.... ENGLAND, ALBERT FREDERICK. Rank: Private. Service No: PLY/17359. Date of Death: 31/05/1916. Regiment/Service: Royal Marine Light Infantry. H.M.S: "Defence." Panel Reference: 18. Memorial: PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL and that one or both may also be in that photo, AND provide a clue as to the ship.....? EDIT: Ah! Horatio has put his finger on my misgivings that these are naval uniforms NOT RMLI, but then why would ggm keep that photo? Where did the other brothers serve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 Irish Independent; Roll of Honour. Doyle-March 3, 1917, at a Base Hospital, from wounds received in action, Private Thomas J Doyle, RMLI., in his 21st year, youngest son of Bridget, and the late John Doyle, 24 Clonmore Road, Ballybough; deeply regretted by his sorrowing mother, brother and sisters. R.I.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 None of the men in the photo is RMLI. They are all naval ratings. DONOVAN may have been a casualty of 13 July but he could have been wounded earlier If he had been wounded earlier than July, would he have been evacuated? The battalion lost a few men on 13th at Helles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 Yes, he would have been evacuated. Hospital ships were taking wounded men to Egypt from immediately after the landings in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 I gather it was about a 3 day trip to Alexandria. How long would a hospital have kept a man before sending him off somewhere else? The hospitals in Alexandria were receiving casualties in large numbers at that time. I can understand seriously wounded men being kept on the basis that the odds of dying were high. But would a man be kept for 4mnths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 Where does four months come into it? Men certainly spent long periods in hospital before dying of their wounds . They were, presumably, too ill to be invalided back to UK. There is a record of a Portsmouth Battalion RMLI man dying on 9 August in Egypt having been wounded at Gallipoli on 24 June. He could have spent about six weeks in hospital in Egypt. A seaman of Collingwood Battalion died on 16 August having been wounded in 3rd Krithia on 4 June, 71 days earlier. A Deal battalion RMLI casualty of 13 July died in Egypt on 3 August so he could have spent more than two weeks in Egypt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick57 Posted 8 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2014 Hi All Many thanks for the flood of replies which have made me stop and think. Naval ratings versus light marines?. Gotta accept that view. Was it possible to change your unit and that quickly? Family originally from Cork City but were living in Dublin prior to war. I think it was also common to give false dates of birth. Cork people had a tendency to do naval service due to the large base that was there.. I'm attaching his discharge papers to see if you see something that I don't. The reference to Mr Doyle is appreciated . I'm tempted to check if the family is still there. Other brothers were Michael 982 1st Bn Irish Guards KIA 27/10/14. Ypres.. Patrick 13104 Royal Dub Fusiliers KIA 15/9/15 Gallipoli (99% sure) Cornelius..dont know his unit but he served and survived. There used to be a role of honour on the parlour wall at the grandmothers with three photos on it and some oration.. but an aunt gave it away and its currently in Australia somewhere.. unknown. Question.. were these supplied by the ministry or did people make them themselves? ie. would some dept have a copy? I don't know did they make a fuss over families who had lost more than one member in service? (outside chance.. i saw Private Ryan !) Rgds all Mick having probs uploading papers will try to put it in my gallery 'Joe Branagan 2nd Munsters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick57 Posted 8 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2014 Just one thing further..can anyone make out the name of the ship on that cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 Hi, This could be his dad, the photo was taken 20 years+ before WW1. Cannot make out the name on the hat. Maharata or something like, can you see more with a magnifying glass. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick57 Posted 8 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2014 Hi Charles Thanks but don't quite follow. There's no picture attached unless you mean the avatar.. anywho his father was also a Stephen.. not military minded who strangely went missing round the turn of the century. But thats another story. I tried all kinds of magnifiers but no luck. Someone who knows his ships would recognise it. I'll continue Rgds Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 Someone who knows his ships would recognise it. How do you suggest how someone can recognise a ship from a badly faded 100 yr old photo with the only clue some out of focus writing on a cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick57 Posted 9 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2014 John No.. that snap is in good focus I think.. it is faded and very old... cap on the left is almost legible at high magnification.. am only missing four letters. name ends in 'ia' but couldnt find a something like 'alexandria' on the lists.. i think there was a 'caledonia'.. needs a revisit by me takes time. I now also know the name of a shipmate who used to live three miles from here. I may just knock. The ship may also have been in service on 13th July in Dardinelles. I am amazed by the expertise out there.. after all they were able to tell me how the brother died at Ypres when we didn't know. It is a long shot though... uniforms throwing me. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 February , 2014 Share Posted 9 February , 2014 Anything on the back of the photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 9 February , 2014 Share Posted 9 February , 2014 It's cost me a trip to Specsavers but that cap tally on the left of the photo reads like Mahranatta, but I can't find anything on a RN vessel similar to that, Harmattan, yes but that was a steam ship.... The thing is, why would she treasure that photo if it wasn't one of her boys? Those aren't Royal Marine Light Infantry, but Jolly Jack Tars. Could it have been her husband, their father, as it almost looks pre WW1 uniform....why the flower? As johnboy asked, is there no photographers imprint or anything on the reverse? There were memorial plaques (death pennies) for each man/woman that died together with a Memorial Scroll, you can Google those terms to find examples. For now, you'll have to console yourself with the CWGC certificate, and perhaps find photos of headstones, Memorials etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 9 February , 2014 Share Posted 9 February , 2014 Hi Mick, Sorry I mean your photo, the Knife pocket on the serge frocks was taken away in the 1890 Royal Navy Dress Regulations. The photo is older than you think. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 February , 2014 Share Posted 9 February , 2014 The thing is, why would she treasure that photo if it wasn't one of her boys? Those aren't Royal Marine Light Infantry, but Jolly Jack Tars. Could one of them have been a brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 February , 2014 Share Posted 9 February , 2014 Throughout the war the 63rd regarded themselves as sailor, even though they were wearing the khaki uniform and toting a bloody rifle, instead of sailing a ship. So no Navy uniforms, should rule him out as far as photo goes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick57 Posted 9 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2014 And there it is Ye see John.. that's why I admire the senior ranks. Combined you've solved it. I agree, the picture is far older than thought.. i needed a fresh (specsavers) eye to tell me that. It's possible the man rear left is a brother of my ggm .I may never know as that end of the family was last heard of in the 1890s. Loads of Corkies joined the RN. I would also be a long time looking for that steam ship in 1915 Well spotted Joe on the uniforms. The flower.. a ships symbol..? or a wedding photo? was that normal back then? Nothing on the back. That picture of mine (avatar). was found in an attic following a funeral.. a relative possibly ... back in the 1850s? lost to time. I have seen the memorial Penny for Stephen years ago and I'll put a copy of the scroll in my gallery. I'm outa luck on photos but the above is still a keeper. Regards and thanks to all again Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 9 February , 2014 Share Posted 9 February , 2014 Glad we've stumbled over its significance to your ggm. One last try before I need braille- HMS Britannia? Given the age of the photo I'm inclined to the 1860-1916 cadet training ship rather than an earlier (or later) one... (knowing my luck it'll probably turn out to be "camellia" or "chrysanthemum", explaining the flower!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick57 Posted 9 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2014 Kev Its so close... Maharannia sounds feasible but not an RN vessel..First letter not a 'B' so rules Brittannia out... Flowers mean something am sure ... I'll try photo shop later So..I'll let this rest for a while .. have a line working on photos with the distant relations. If anything props up I'll be glad to inform the site Thanks for all the insight Rgds Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 9 February , 2014 Share Posted 9 February , 2014 How many RN ships have there been with 10 or more letters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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