Austro-hungarian 24 cm heavy mortar battery at Lubban in 1918

[wraith4242]

According to my sources, the k.u.k Motor-Mörser-Batterie Nr. 9 was stationed near Lubban (today Luban e-Sharkiya, Israel) from 29th April to 8th August 1918. I found two references of the battery in australian sources: on July 20th it was mentioned as active again, without any further details. On August 3rd & 4th it fired 51 shells at map positions C5/J32a, b and C5/L2d. Probably the targets were the positions of the 10th or 53th Brigade.

Can anyobody provide a map for those coordinates? Is there a map for this time with exact troop positions? Anyone coming accross any reference for these shellings?

Any information would be appreciated.

[wraith4242]

If understand correctly, the approximate positions of the units should be something like this for the above time frame: (red circle is the effective range of the 24 cm heavy mortar)

[AndyR]

Hi

Looking at the red circle and seeing the date 29th April, I wonder if the painting 'Irish Troops in the Judean Hills Surprised by a Turkish Bombardment' by official war artist Henry Lamb (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/inside-first-world-war/part-five/10542248/official-war-artist-henry-lamb.html) has anything to do with this?

Andy

[wraith4242]

Andy: The evidence is only circumstantial, but I think you got something there. Tha battery arrived on 29th, it probably took a few days to build the positions, check the mortars, get to know the terrain and the enemy positions, etc. The attack on May 3rd could be the very first shots by the battery on this front. The usage of high eplxosive shells, the number of shots all fits the profile of the battery. Thank you for sharing this suggestion.

[bob lembke]

Guys (and Gals!);

I am just getting back to the Forum after a necessary absence of about two years.

Have to check my records, but I believe that this is the same battery that my father saw in action at ANZAC beachhead at Gallipoli in November 1915.

My father was a volunteer Pionier with the Turkish Fifth Army. He knew these guns, as his father worked with the similar Moto=Moerser 30.5 cm guns

in Belgium in 1914 and in Russia in 1915. (Also, while the Germans were very secretive with their big siege guns, the Austro-Hungarians publicized

them heavily as a matter of pride and perhaps prestige. This battery was sent to ANZAC and an Austro-Hungarian 15 cm howitzer battery was sent

to the Helles beachhead to the south of ANZAC. The A-H had first planned to send the 30.5 cm guns, but two A-H artillery officers scouted the route

from the Turkish rail head to Gallipoli, a distance of about 100 miles, and they recommended sending the lighter 24.5 cm guns, which looked very similar,

especially as they felt that the bridges would be a great problem for the heavier 30.5 cm gun system. While the 24.5 cm threw a shell of about 300 lbs,

the 30.5 cm threw a shell of about 1000 lb.

The very impressive motor carriage system for these guns were designed by the brilliant Dr. Ferdinand Porsche. They were extremely mobile.

If I poke about I could come up with the battery numbers for both of these batteries. They were, from memory, Nr. 9 and Nr. 36.

Bob Lembke

[James A Pratt III]

The online AH official history "Austria-Hungary's last war does has some information on these guns in action. There is also a little about them in the Osprey Books on the Austro-Hungarian army 1914-1918.

On Landships.com Artillery section there is a picture of one of the 10.4cm guns captured by the Australian Light Horse that is on display in Australia

I hope this is of some use or interest

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I can confirm one of these;

36th Bty (KUK) (150mm How) - Capt Manouschek (at Gallipoli)

Two other batteries were in action with Turkish forces in Palestine 1/4th Bty + 2/6th Bty (KUK) (each 6x 10cm Skoda Mountain guns).

I'll have to find what Battery No 9 was.

S.B

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

My Turkish sourse shows this detail on Battery No 9

He writes;

The k.u.k Motor-Mörser-Batterie Nr. 9 was the first battery that arrived to Turkey. The battery was loaded on Donau Monitors at Vieenna on Oct 22nd 1915. It beginned his journey to Turkey on Danube with 4 officers and 80 men.

the k.u.k 24 cm Motor-Mörser-Batterie Nr. 9 arrived at Uzunköprü on Turkish-Bulgarian border on Oct. 15th 1915 and got immediately orders from General Pomiankowski to move to the order of 5th Army at Gallipoli. Commander of instructions team 2nd Lt Höpflinger and automobiile officer 2nd Lt Filipp went to Istanbul to visit Enver Pasha and the Sultan.

The battery with 4 guns and 7 automobile under command of Lt Sitta and Lt. Lindner mounted again and gotready to move to Gallipoli with the help of Turkish soldiers. Because it was put in 140 great boxes before departure to Turkey.

More to follow

Cheers

S.B

[bob lembke]

Steve;

Your information is largely consistent with what I know, except that the battery arrived in Turkey on November 15th; of course not on October 15th, which would be a week before its leaving Vienna.

I am surprised that the battery had four guns and 80 men. But I know a lot more about German siege gun batteries than A-H batteries. But generally with guns of this size they had two guns per battery.

Also, all of the men of the battery may not have been traveling with the guns at the same time. German siege batteries generally had two guns and about 100 men, and often nearby infantry were "drafted"

to help; in one case I know of a two-gun battery in Belgium being assigned an infantry company for a period of several weeks, for labor and for escort. Also, I would think that if it was a four gun battery it

would have had at least six officers.

I know that, in other examples of the arrival of German or A-H units, the unit waited at the Turkish railhead while some officers were asked to visit Istanbul and meet Turkish officers.

I can't imagine that the battery had been disassembled and put into crates to be shipped to Turkey. Perhaps the gear and ammo, etc. Due to the complex and unusual mechanical nature of the Motor=Moerser

equipment, it would probably have been impossible to assemble the equipment again in the field, if stripped down in detail. The design allowed for the guns to be broken down into perhaps three parts

for transport, each on its specialized motor carriage. Tearing it down further would have been a disaster. The motor carriages and the gun parts could have been winched onto the ships individually.

As I mentioned, my father saw this battery firing on the ANZAC beachhead and described it to me.

Pomiankowski was actually a Vice Field Marschal (sp?) in the A-H Army and the A-H envoy to Turkey. His book is a very valuable source on this period.

Can you divulge your Turkish source? Is he writing in English or Turkish? Modern Turkish? (I once spent three days attempting to translate three pages of Modern Turkish, and it was a very painful effort.)

I find your information very interesting, and I will incorporate it in my notes. I am just starting to write my Gallipoli portion of my father's biography.

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

The follow may explain some of this;

He continues;

The rest of the battery under command of Capt. barber, 2nd Klob and Lt. Jeschek with 183 men also arrived to Turkey on Nov.15th 1915. They begun to march to Gallipoli on Nov. 19th. Infont of the convoy was 2ndLt Filipp with the guns. 120 wagons full of material and ammu was following him. After 3 days 170 km walk the battery arrived To the town of Yalova.

On Nov 27th the battery opened fire from its positin at Matik Dere which was 1 kms east of Koca Çimen. to the british trenches and positions on Mestan Tepe and Purnar (Pinar) Tepe, On Nov 28th the battery fired to well fortified Kanli Sirt (Bloody ridge

On Feb 1917 the battery diveded into two parts. Two 24cm guns changed to 10.4 cm guns and forwarded to Gazze under command of Capt. Kodar with a new name and number: “ K.u.K. 10 cm Kononenbatterie No: 20“ The rest of the battery under command of 2nd Lt Filipp supported with new automobiles and trucks send to the Enes line on Turkish Greek -Bulgarian Border withe the name and number “K.u.K. 24 cm Motor Mörserbatterie No: 9”

This is from the Source: Report of Batteriekommandant Oberleutnant Engelbert Filipp "K.u.K 24 c/m Motor Mörserbatterie No 9, Beilage zu Res. N: 45/2,

I have asked him about the follow.

Was it No 9 Battery that fired on Luban in 1918 or No 20 Battery as he states in his book?

Await his reply?

By the way he writes in

1917 Şubat ayında Batarya iki kısma ayrıldı. Otomobil ve kamyonlarla takviye edilen 2 toplu batarya eski ünvanı ile “K.u.K. 24 cm Motor Mörserbatterie No: 9” (9 Numaralı 24lük Motorlu Havan Bataryası), Üsteğmen Pilipp komutasında Enes hattına gönderildi. Diğer iki top ise 10.4’lük toplarla değiştirildi ve “ K.u.K. 10 cm Kononenbatterie No: 20“ (20 Numaralı 10’luk Topçu Bataryası) adını aldı, Yüzbaşı Kodar emrinde Gazze Cephesi’ne gönderildi.

but places the translation under the Turkish?

Cheers

S.B

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

He continues;

After a short while Capt Barber got sick and Capt.Alexander Kodar von Thurnwerth took command of No 9.

At Enes line the 9th was positioned at Koru Mountains in order to protect a new landing to Saros bay. The battery was given to the order of 55th div. "Enes" heavy Artillery Regiment no: 5 and rested 6 months At Saros . On sept. 23th the battery moved to Gazze and took part on 3trd Gazze.

TSnote: The reporter 2 'nd Lt Filipp dont give further information about the activities of the battery. I understand that no battery 9th existiert in Gazze.

Unfortunately no official Turkish historical book or annal mention any word about KuK battery in Gazze. I wrote the book from various foreign sources and some Turkish memories. I am sure that Kuk battery served extraordinately at Gallipoli and Sina Palestine. Their deeds are not to be forgetten.

My "Austrian-Hungarian Soldiers in Turkish Army " at facebook. Those who are interested must be a friend of mine to see the pictures.
https://www.facebook.com/tosun.saral/me... 735&type=3

Cheers

S.B

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

So I hope you can follow the above?

after the No 9 Battery arrived at Gallipoli it remained in garrision until it splite into two two gun batteries in Feb 1917.

The new Kononenbatterie No 20 (2x10cm guns) under Capt Kodar von Thurnwerth went to Gaza to stay and fight there, and was most likely that battery shooting at Luban in 1918.

The old No 9 Battery disappears after going to the Bulgarian Front in 1917, possibly returned to Austria?

One for An Austrian researcher, "Wraith" over to you to find any details that may help fill in the history of this unit?

S.B

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

Sorry my mistake these guns were 10.4cm skoda M15 guns not the 10cm (10cm skoda M14) which are also shown with Austrian batteries on this front?

S.B