Victory Medal Inscriptions

[lmc2489]

Good morning

As a serving soldier in the Royal Artillery, i have been conducting research on the military history of my family.

I telephoned my Aunt the other day, and she was explaining to me of some medals she had in her possession, my Grandfathers group being one of them. However she had two victory medals in her possession in which she did not know the recipients.

My Grandfather later re married, so potentially they were inherited from his wife, from members of her family.

The inscriptions on the medals are as follows:

1109 Dvr S. Dawson R.A.

8827 Pte L Vaughan 8 -HRS

Would any forum members be able to help with this?

Regards

Liam

[stdape2011]

Just on a quick look will update this post as i find anything.

Samuel Dawson had 3 Numbers in RFA 1109 & 705256 where he was a driver in each and 736911 where he was a Bombadier he started his Active Service in Eygpt 20-9-1914

No Service Record or Pension Record i can Find Just a Medal Record and looks like he Survived the War

Could you recheck the second ones numbers not coming up anywhere

[Steven Broomfield]

One would assume Vaughan was in the 8th (King's Royal Irish) Hussars.

[HarryBrook]

Samuel Dawson - Driver 1109 Royal Field Artillery, later 705250, later Bombardier 736911. First theatre of war entered Egypt on 20.9.1914. Entitled to the 1914-1915 Star, British War Medal, and Victory Medal. Also entitled to the Territorial Efficiency Medal by Army Order 354 of 1924. A note on the back of his medal index card states that he was 'serving with 52nd (E. L.) Field Bde. R. A. (T.A.)'. Assume (E.L.) is East Lancs.

8827 L. Vaughan should read 2827, Pte. Leonard Vaughan, 8th Hussars. First theatre of war entered (not stated but would have been France) on 11.11.1914. 8th (King's Royal Irish) Hussars land in Marseilles on 10.11.1914 from India. Entitled to the 1914 Star, British War Medal, and Victory Medal. Also issued the Silver War Badge. Silver War Badge Roll states that he enlisted 12.8.08 and was discharged on 2.1.19; reason for discharge Para 392 (xvia) K.R.; served overseas, age 29.

1911 census - Campbell Barracks, Dilkusha, Lucknow, India. 8th Hussars. - Leonard Vaughan, Private, born Burslem, Staffs.

[stdape2011]

Nice one Harry

[lmc2489]

Gents

Thank you for your help with this very much appreciated, i will speak to my Aunt if the christian names ring a bell.

When my Grandfather (90048 Private Arthur Mack) died, unfortunately the three daughters, my mother and aunts, were all given a medal of his by his wife. I have my Grandfathers GSM, however the suspender bar is broken and it is without the ribbon.

Which leads me to the inscription on his Victory Medal, it has his regimental number 43851 South Lancs Regiment, however his GSM has the regimental number 90048 Manchester Regiment his MIC has all three of his service numbers on there.

Would this be normal different numbers on his medals?

I have yet to find much more information on my Grandfather apart from his MIC, anyone have any further information that could help?

Regards, and thank your for your help.

Liam

[kenf48]

The 'war medals' are named to the Regiment he was serving in when he qualified for them by going overseas and entering a theatre of war i.e. the South Lancs. This was after 31/12/1915

Similarly with the GSM by this time he was with the 2nd Bn Manchester Regiment when he qualified for the GSM with the Iraq clasp. The hash tag/asterisk on the mic indicates the medal is named to that Regiment.

I suspect he reenlisted at the end of hostilities and went out to Iraq in 1920 with the 2nd Bn Manchesters when they were engaged in quelling what has become known as the 'Arab Revolt' it was no picnic and if you have a look at http://www.victoriacross.org.uk/bbhendeg.htm you will see details of the VC won by Capt Henderson, of course no idea if your gf was in that action.

Incidentally if he continued to serve after 1921 his records should be at the MOD at a cost of £30 and a long wait

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html

Ken

[lmc2489]

Ken

Thank you for the information, i was contemplating doing this at the MOD, but knowing how liong things take there from my personal experience, it will be a long wait. Any idea how long off hand?

So his War Medal and Victory Medal would of been awarded while he was serving in the South Lancashire Regiment? Then presumably on re-enlistment he went to the 2nd Bn Manchester Regiment?

I have read some articles on the 'arab revolt' and visted the war memorial outside Basrah, very impressive.

Apologies for the many questions, i am attempting to piece together his service details.

Regards

Liam

[kenf48]

Ken

Thank you for the information, i was contemplating doing this at the MOD, but knowing how liong things take there from my personal experience, it will be a long wait. Any idea how long off hand?

So his War Medal and Victory Medal would of been awarded while he was serving in the South Lancashire Regiment? Then presumably on re-enlistment he went to the 2nd Bn Manchester Regiment?

I have read some articles on the 'arab revolt' and visted the war memorial outside Basrah, very impressive.

Apologies for the many questions, i am attempting to piece together his service details.

Regards

Liam

Without a service record (and yes they can take some time but I've only asked for an RAF record) we can only make (hopefully) informed guesses.

All BWM and VM are named to the first unit he served overseas with. If you can view the Medal Rolls at Kew they should tell you which Battalion of the South Lancs he first went overseas with. You will need the Roll reference which is on the card, I suspect he will be on the Manchester Regiment Roll i.e. his last Regiment was responsible for issuing the medals. The issue of these medals began in May 1920.

As you will see from the reverse of the card the GSM was awarded in 1924 AND I've just seen his address which is given as 3514079 2.Lanc(ashire) Fus(liers) Landi Kolal India. This appears to be in the same hand as that recording the issue of the GSM which means he was definitely serving after 1920.

This is also confirmed by the third 7 Digit number to the Manchesters which was issued in 1920 see http://www.1914-1918.net/renumbering20.htm.

So in 1920 he was in the Manchester Regiment (i.e. thats when that block of numbers was issued) in Iraq and apparently in 1924 in India in the Lancashire Fusiliers. The record will straighten it out.

However his age may have some influence so let's say he went overseas with the South Lancs and then transferred to a (unknown) Bn of the Manchester Regiment during the war. There could be many reasons for this, the 1918 reorganisation;wounded and transferred on return; transferred on arrival in theatre at the IBD etc. Essentially he was either conscripted or volunteered for the Duration of the War at the end of the war many Battalions were disbanded quite quickly but young fit men who were good soldiers re-enlisted as Regulars for these 'post western front' campaigns and as I said those I've seen in the records for the MGC usually happened the same day.

I'll try and have a look later in the records unless a Manchester expert comes along but usually the post war re-enlistment for the campaigns such as Iraq Russia etc occurred on discharge, if that makes sense!

(Have to dash to pick the wife up from choir now but will have a look in the records later)

Ken

[kenf48]

Best guess enlisted South Lancs between February and June 1916; however I can't find any casualties in the 438** series before 1918 on CWGC (they were split between the 2nd Bn and 1/5th).

He then transferred to Manchester Regiment early 1919, say around March - May and posted to 2nd Bn, difficult to say whether or not this was an Army transfer or reenlistment then renumbered in 1920 as per the link above. Unfortunately couldn't find any reenlistments.

As I say best guess but not as an exact science as artillery! Best get the service record.

Ken

[lmc2489]

Ken

Thank you very much, i find all this fascinating.

From my research pretty much starting in late December 13 (so very new to this reserching, and where to find the correct info), i have pieced together much informtion for my Father and Aunt, which due to the passage of time has been much forgotton or confused.

I have made a document of my service history from 1990-to present date, i am in the process of trying to piece together the same for my ancestors.

However with so many of my family who served in WW1+WW2 my wallet is taking a seriuos battering replacing some lost medals and mounting them in frames!

Your help has been much appreciated, could i trouble you with more requests for help?

Regards

Liam

[kenf48]

Your help has been much appreciated, could i trouble you with more requests for help?

Regards

Liam

Liam,

No trouble at all, welcome to the club you'll soon be as obsessed as the rest of us, but as this thread shows the forum is a co-operative venture and we all learn from each other but some prefer the e-mail facility.

First step is to have a good look at the parent site the LLT

http://www.1914-1918.net

then at least you will be talking the same language. Also have a look at the forum search engine can be difficult to navigate but there is so much information there going back over ten years.

The service records and much more besides are on Ancestry which to save your wallet can, often with Find My Past as well, be accessed for free through your local library.

Some of us just find it more interesting researching these soldiers and learning about the GW than other 'retirement activities' - after over 20 years in the RA guess you'll be joining us soon It's a pretty broad church with a wide range of interests and with the Centenary it's getting easier to access records online.

Yes ask away you'll find we're a pretty friendly bunch, even if we can be a bit waspish at times but that goes with the gog*t territory.

Ken

[lmc2489]

Ken

Thank you, i pretty much am obsessed with this at the moment! you are correct!

i have traced a lot on my Great Grandfather 26424 Gnr Thomas Morrisey 41 Bde RFA, and had a lot of great info from guys on here.

I am looking at replacing the 1914 Star, BWM and VM of his, and my Granfathers 90048 Arthur Mackwith his BWM and VM, however his GSM suspender has broken, i have looked at various places but struggled to procure the correct GSM with clasp IRAQ.

Yes i have seen some of the threads on here, going back awhile, interesting stuff.

Regards

Liam

[LarsA]

It might be possible to have the GSM suspender repaired, i'll see if I can suggest someone.

ATB,

Lars

[lmc2489]

Lars

Thank you.

I have an up to date spare GSM, the suspender bar is the same so may just use that as a donor to have reapired.

Reagrds

Liam

[LarsA]

Try this: http://www.gamedals.co.uk

ATB,

Lars

[lmc2489]

Lars

Thank you.

Liam