tamos123 Posted 3 October , 2004 Share Posted 3 October , 2004 Hi In a RE company what is the difference between a Pioneer and Sapper rank? thank you T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 4 October , 2004 Share Posted 4 October , 2004 Pioneer was the lowest rank in the Royal Engineers and was held by men not qualified in a military skill. Sappers, on the other hand, did have an RE trade. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamos123 Posted 4 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2004 thanks Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RC Sigs Posted 5 October , 2004 Share Posted 5 October , 2004 My grandfather was a pioneer. He was a carpenter. There is a trade badge for this. He wore crossed axes on his uniform. Sapper is a rank in the engineers equal to private. Therefore a soldier could be both a sapper and a pioneer at once, one being his rank and the other being his trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 5 October , 2004 Share Posted 5 October , 2004 Spanner in works. According to Pay Warrant 1914 [which knows a thing or two about rank!], sapper, pioneer, driver and bandsman were all paid 1/2- per day, and were [except boys] the lowest of the low. As to what happened thereafter, I know not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoplophile Posted 30 December , 2004 Share Posted 30 December , 2004 On the eve of the war, the term "pioneer" had two distinct meanings in the British Army. The first type of pioneer was an infantryman who belonged to the pioneer section of an infantry battalion. As this section did all sorts of engineering and construction work, the men who were assigned to it were most likely ones with previous experience with that sort of thing. The second type was a man without a recognised trade who had been enlisted in the Royal Engineers as part of an experimental programme. (As a rule, a man had to pass a "trade test" in order to enlist in the Royal Engineers. Pioneers, however, were allowed to enlist without passing such a test.) In the autumn of 1914, a third type of pioneer was created when several infantry battalions were converted into pioneer battalions. Inspired by the pioneer battalions of the Indian Army, these were units designed to relieve the Royal Engineer field companies of simple engineering work so that they could concentrate on tasks that required more in the way of engineering expertise. At the same time, pioneer battalions were expected to function as full-fledged infantry units. Indeed, apart from a few extra wagons filled with tools, explosives and other engineer stores, pioneer battalions had the exact same establishments as infantry battalions. They even had pioneer sections! Ideally, the men assigned to pioneer battalions were those with previous experience with digging. Thus, pains were taken to recruit miners, construction labourers and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ceaser Posted 10 February , 2005 Share Posted 10 February , 2005 Hi - My G Grandad was a sapper in the RE and I am just starting to research it. Can anyone explain to me why, according to the nationalarchives he had two regimental numbers: Medal card of Beecham, Bertie D Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Engineers 181022 Sapper Royal Engineers WR/256972 Sapper thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 10 February , 2005 Share Posted 10 February , 2005 Hi - My G Grandad was a sapper in the RE and I am just starting to research it. Can anyone explain to me why, according to the nationalarchives he had two regimental numbers: Medal card of Beecham, Bertie D Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Engineers 181022 Sapper Royal Engineers WR/256972 Sapper thank you The number with the WR prefix shows that he was either with a Railway unit or an Inland Waterways Transport unit All The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ceaser Posted 13 February , 2005 Share Posted 13 February , 2005 Hi - My G Grandad was a sapper in the RE and I am just starting to research it. Can anyone explain to me why, according to the nationalarchives he had two regimental numbers: Medal card of Beecham, Bertie D Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Engineers 181022 Sapper Royal Engineers WR/256972 Sapper thank you The number with the WR prefix shows that he was either with a Railway unit or an Inland Waterways Transport unit All The Best Chris May thanks - being a tad thick as I'm new to all of this does htese then mean that he would have been in two "units" for some reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 13 February , 2005 Share Posted 13 February , 2005 He could also have been in a roads or quarry unit as well with a WR pre-fix. With regard to his number, two things could have happened. Firstly, he may have been serving in another branch of the RE and then transferred. There was also a number change for WR men, so he may have been in one of these units from the start. I have yet to determine at what stage this change took place, but it may possibly have been in 1917. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nina Posted 15 May , 2005 Share Posted 15 May , 2005 Hello, I have just joined this wonderful site because I am trying to find out more about my G-grandfather's war record. He was a sapper in the Seaforth Highlanders. I have his original 'transfer to reserve on demobilization' paper though it is difficult to read. So I went to NA, and like Caesar I found that he has two regimental numbers. Royal Engineers WR/268163 Sapper Royal Engineers 251385 Sapper Through reading at this site tonight I found that WR stands for waterways and railways, which makes sense, as my G-grandfather worked in the railways before and after the war. I am therefore most interested to know why he transferred from one regiment to the other, when he was in the railway trade prior to the war. He joined up on 27th February 1916. I am very new to the military topic, and I am eager to learn as much as I can. Thank you for reading, Nina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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