cwbuff Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 I'm working on translating a German regimental history. Presently, I'm working on the Battle of the Somme. There is a reference to a "Revolverkanone" which translate to revolving cannon or revolving gun. The reference attributes it to use by the French against the German infantry. I'm not familiar with this weapon and would be interested learning more about it so that I can footnote the reference. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 A hand cranked Hotchkiss rather like a huge Gatling gun in various sizes firing either 37 or 47 mm shells. Originally used as naval guns and fortress weapons put on improvised carriages and used as infantry guns. They were also built under license by Gruson in Germany and Nordenfeldt and also used by the German navy. Many of these were later used as AA guns for observation balloon defence, some were cannibalised to build single barrelled infantry/anti tank guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3484/5757293091_e2d67994e0_b.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 A French 37mm one captured by the Germans http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=176219&sid=5c5a4002d062b6d371e47965a4561058 http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=176218&sid=5c5a4002d062b6d371e47965a4561058 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 The usual translation is 'revolver cannon'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwbuff Posted 25 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2014 Thanks and quite interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huwrevans Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 I have a shell from one the forum members helped identify, hope it adds something to the explanation - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=180154&hl=hotchkiss#entry1750241 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntaylor Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Hi, further to this I have seen the term "Revolverkanone" used in German unit histories referring to the armament of Mark IV tanks. In view of this I wonder if the term was also used more loosely to refer to Lewis guns, in view of their rotating magazine. Just a thought, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Hi, further to this I have seen the term "Revolverkanone" used in German unit histories referring to the armament of Mark IV tanks. In view of this I wonder if the term was also used more loosely to refer to Lewis guns, in view of their rotating magazine. Just a thought, John Does not "Kanone" imply a rather larger calibre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Does not "Kanone" imply a rather larger calibre? i don't know about WWI, but it certainly did later in WW2. In German terminology it was a "maschinengewehr" if 20mm calibre or below and a "maschinenkanone" if larger. Thus the 30mm version of the MK213 was a "Maschinenkanone" whilst the MG213 20mm version was a "Maschinengewehr". I cannot see the rotating magazine of the Lewis causing it to be referred to as a revelverkanone by the Germans. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=185493&p=1830120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Given that Hotchkiss produced a special fortress mount for their revolving cannon and Gruson who specialised in fortress cupolas also made the Hotchkiss under licence one would not be surprised to find them in fortifications on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Hi, further to this I have seen the term "Revolverkanone" used in German unit histories referring to the armament of Mark IV tanks. In view of this I wonder if the term was also used more loosely to refer to Lewis guns, in view of their rotating magazine. Can you quote an example, John. The Germans were very familiar with the Lewis gun and I can't see them referring to it as a Revolverkanone, which is a bigger, multi-barrelled weapon. Were these Mk IVs in British service or were they Beutepanzer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntaylor Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Hi, I share all your questions and concerns, but the term "Revolverkanone" was definitely used in connection with the armament of British Mark IV tanks (not Beutepanzer). The description of one tank attack is as follows: "Schon pfeift ein Schutz aus der Revolverkanone uns an den Knoepfen vorbei, Maschinengewehrschuesse klatchen an die Waende." I would translate this as follows - hopefully Egbert can correct as necessary: "Already a shot from the revolver cannon is whistling past our heads, machine gun bullets clatter against the wall." Elsewhere they refer to "Lewisgewehre" so they knew all about tank armament. Maybe he was referring to the tank's six-pounder gun, but if so the term "Revolverkanone" doesn't seem very appropriate there either. Not sure we'll ever solve this one, but my conclusion is that the term wasn't always used as precisely as we would like! All the best, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 The term "Revolverkanone " was very well used in German regimental histories and WW1 books from the era. As I said, I used as an example the book from veteran Killian, who talked of one Revolverkanone being transfered from peacetime fortress Istein to HWK on 21.3.16 and used from inside Feste Großherzog against the nearby French lines. If you search for "Revolverkanone" you will find tons of German websites. John, your translation is perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Hi, I share all your questions and concerns, but the term "Revolverkanone" was definitely used in connection with the armament of British Mark IV tanks (not Beutepanzer). The description of one tank attack is as follows: "Schon pfeift ein Schutz aus der Revolverkanone uns an den Knoepfen vorbei, Maschinengewehrschuesse klatchen an die Waende." I would translate this as follows - hopefully Egbert can correct as necessary: "Already a shot from the revolver cannon is whistling past our heads, machine gun bullets clatter against the wall." Elsewhere they refer to "Lewisgewehre" so they knew all about tank armament. Maybe he was referring to the tank's six-pounder gun, but if so the term "Revolverkanone" doesn't seem very appropriate there either. Not sure we'll ever solve this one, but my conclusion is that the term wasn't always used as precisely as we would like! All the best, John Some 37 mm and 47mm Hotchkiss/Gruson revolving guns were cannibalised to produce a number of single barrelled QF guns used as trench and fortress weapons. Possibly their source was still recognised in their naming? If so then the reference to fire from British tanks could well be talking about 6 pounder rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 One 'Schuss' doesn't make a Revolverkanone, John, and unless you can find a reference to rapid (relatively speaking) fire of multiple shots from a Revolverkanone, I'd be pretty sure that the reference is a mis-identification of the tank's 6-pounder. A thought has just occurred to me, though .... I wonder whether 'Revolver' in these instances refers not to the action of a multi-barrelled gun, but to a single-barrelled 6pdr mounted in a rotating sponson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 In my opinion the quick firing 6 Pdr was mistakenly named a 'revolver kanone' Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntaylor Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Hi, I agree he must have been referring to the tank's six-pounder gun. I suppose if you were on the receiving end of a six-pounder shell you wouldn't worry too much what was firing it, but it still seems a slightly surprising mistake. He uses the term 'Revolverkanone' more than once in the book, and as you say, if the gun was firing single shots then there was no reason to believe it was capable of automated fire. Admittedly this description relates to the first time they encountered tanks, but the book came out after the war had ended and you would have thought that by then, they would have had a pretty good idea of what was involved. Siege Gunner, your suggestion is an interesting one - I would have expected the term would refer to an automatic fire capability rather than the mounting, but would have to defer to a native German speaker on this. My overall conclusion would still be that terms like this weren't necessarily used accurately or precisely, and we should be careful how we interpret them. Interesting discussion though! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 The larger revolver cannons fired a 47mm shell which is close enough to a 6 pounder shell as makes no difference if you are the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntaylor Posted 13 February , 2014 Share Posted 13 February , 2014 As a postscript to this, I've just come across a sketch prepared by a German soldier following Cambrai (Nov 12917) which describes the armament of the British tanks as "2 Revolverkanonen u. mindestens 3 M.Gs." (i.e. two revolver cannon and at least three machine guns). So it seems the previous account wasn't just a rogue description. All the best, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted 16 February , 2014 Share Posted 16 February , 2014 Greetings all, Just thought I'd add some additional pictures. The Anti-aircraft mount is pretty neat. Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyr4 Posted 18 February , 2014 Share Posted 18 February , 2014 Here is a picture of my Gruson 3.7 shell as used in the revolving cannon, I think this is quite a rare shell. z4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 11 March , 2014 Share Posted 11 March , 2014 from Gerrman manual Revolving gun: 5 barrels trench gun: 1 barrel Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 11 March , 2014 Share Posted 11 March , 2014 IN GEA the Germans used a few revolerkanone. I think two were captured by the British in 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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