41 Brigade RFA 1914-1915

[lmc2489]

As a serving soldier in the Royal Artillery, i am researching my family history, particularly 41 Bde RFA. My Great Grandfather was 26424 Driver Thomas Morrisey. Any help or assistance would be gratefully received.

[johntanner]

The War Diaries are included in the recently released set of downloads from the National Archives. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C4554477

John

[battiscombe]

As a regular Brigade it was with 2nd Division throughout the war.. there is a good history of the 2nd Division [by Wyrall] which will tell you what they did.. The war diaries of the Brigade are available online for a small fee .. but are perhaps less informative, in a general way, than the Divisional history. They do not name him I believe, and - having researched the 2nd Division RFA quite a lot - I have not been able to identify which battery he served with, as his records do not seem to have survived. The chances are that he was a mobilised reservist and could have served with 9th, 16th, 17th Battery or the 41st Brigade Ammunition Column [the latter mainly reservists].

[lmc2489]

Thank you for your replies, that's great.

Regarding his records, i have found out from the 1901 census, he was serving in 92 Battery RFA,based in Aldershot. I have found his records on Ancestry, which were quite informative to a degree.

The family history that i have was very sketchy,regarding the regiment he served in etc, the main information that i had was that he was based in Colchester for awhile, incidentally opposite where i am now based.

From the research i have conducted, i found his Medical history from 1902, he was hospitalised in Sheffield in 1903, and again when based in Colchester in 1905.

He re-enlisted and was attested on 24 June 1916 he stated that he had served 13 years with the the RFA, he was then posted to NO.2 Depot at Preston, 9 Reserve Battery from 24/6/16 -12/9/16, then went to Mesoptotamia with what looks like 66 Bde? (Some of the wording is difficult to read) from 13/9/16 - 13/10/18 then for the period 14/10/18 - 31/3.20 it is hard to decipher.He was at a dispersal centre on 6/4/19 then transferred to Army Reserve Class Z on 6/4/19.

I am attempting to piece together his pre -war service and service during the war itself and subsequent deployment to Mesopotamia.

I am new to this research, and looking at other great war family members, and finding it rather obsessive! Actually seeing my Great Grandfathers signature on documents has fantastic.

Thank you in advance for anymore information anyone has.

Regards

Liam

His Medals Index Card has 41 Bde RFA as his unit

[johntanner]

16th Battery landed in France on 18 August (from my grandfather's MiC), which suggests as his date of entry is 16 August probably rules them out as his unit.

John

[lmc2489]

John

His index card has him as qualifying for his 1914 Star with clasp and roses on 16/8/14.

Cheers

Liam

[battiscombe]

The 41st Brigade diary [what are 'regiments' today were 3 battery 'Brigades' then..] has them embarking on 15/8/1914 in Southampton and disembarking the morning of 16th Aug at Havre... and i have a copy of the 1914 Star Roll which shows that as the date of entry for all the Brigade as far as i can see.. It suggests that all units of the brigade should have that date on date-of entry. They entrained on the morning of the 18th and arrived at Vaux that evening.

if in the army in 1901, this suggests an 1898 enlistment to me [as otherwise 264xx numbers were being issued in September 1902...] ...... I have a Gunner Smith (26428) [mobilised to 44th Brigade, 2nd Div in 1914)] who enlisted 15/2/1898, on a 7 year + 5 year reserve enlistment .. although the sums don't quite add up if he was first discharged in Aug 1915 as 'time expired', as his 1916 attestation paper records.. (as this would normally be on a 12 year enlistment.). but that would be right if he had enlisted in Sept 1902..

... as for example Driver Fairhurst [26392] enlisted Sept 1902... mobilised to 9th Bty/41st Brigade..

i see his records and that would indeed be service with B Battery/66th Brigade in Mesopotamia

if in Colchester in 1905 that could be with 15th Brigade RFA [then 5th, 9th and 17th Batteries] .. i think the only Brigade posted there.. they had been in Sheffield in 1903... so that would fit..

I cant think of any way to work out which battery he was in in 1914.. and I am a little puzzled as to when he in fact enlisted..

[lmc2489]

Battiscombe

Your help with this is much appreciated, some of the dates on his paperwork do not match up 1000%.

I have a copy of his Army Form B. 158, it states he joined on 10 Sept 1902 in Manchester , and was posted to NO.7 Depot R.F.A. with Regimental number 26424.

From records i have here with me, the timeline is as follows.

31 Sept 1902 CENSUS 92 Bty in Aldershot (this maybe wrong person, however all the details add up regarding birthday etc)

10 Sept 1902 joins army.

6 Oct 1902 date of arrival at station

29 Jan 1903 in hospital in Sheffield for 8 days with head injury.

7 March 1905 marries in Colchester.

10 March 1905 in hospital in Colchester

8 December(looks like) 1915 Discharged 'Time expired'

24 June 1916 Re-enlists Manchester town hall.

27 June 1916 posted to Preston NO.2 Depot

29 July 1916 AWOL

3 August 1916 returns from absence (not sure if voluntary return!)

This is where some dates do not add up to be fair.

Sept 1916 looks like 10 Res Bde

13 Sept 1916 Mesopotamia Expeditionary Force

14 Oct 18-31 Jan 1920 i cannot work out the writing here, it looks like 'on fwld' i may be totally off the mark with this though, however it looks like that.

Your help is appreciated, thanks.

Liam

[battiscombe]

one thing is the census was 1901, not 1902, [or was it delayed that year?] but 92nd Bty was indeed at Aldershot in1901-2 ...?? In 17th Brigade RFA [10th, 26th & 92nd Bty] . but joining up that date 10 Sept 1902 [not 1901] would indeed fit the issue of numbers in that range. .. at that time No 7 depot was Preston... I read the record as 'time expired' Oct 8 1915.. which would fit more or less to a september enlistment date

reenlists 1916 to No 2 Depot Preston .[these had all changed between 1902 and 1914..] . which was then home of 2A Reserve Brigade RFA .. and comprised 7th, 8th and 9th Reserve Batteries... Captain G A Guthrie [see stamp & signature] was on 2nd Depot staff... ; 2/9/1916 posted to 4A Reserve Brigade, which was at Woolwich and comprised 19, 20 and 21 Reserve Batteries.. which also fits with the 20th Res Battery stamp .. and name of Major T M Usborne who was presumably 20th Res Bty commander. Posted from there to Mesopotamia to join B/66th Bde... his demob being signed off from Woolwich it would seem, in 1920, even he probably left in april 1919 from one of the 'dispersal centres..',

[lmc2489]

Great, it was a typo for census of 1902, it should of read 1901.

Thank you for you time with this, its quite interesting looking at the records, i will be honest though at times attempting to decipher some of the writing has been difficult, i suppose with the experience that you have with this it is a lot easier.

Would you have any links to where B Bty 66 Bde were deployed to?

Regards

Liam

[battiscombe]

I am afraid i dont know much about 66th Brigade RFA.. in the mesopotamian campaign with 13th Division http://www.1914-1918.net/13div.htm

There may well be some post on the forum about the Brigade... i have a vague feeling I saw a photo album/photos from that Brigade online .... somewhere ...

i would note that there a clearly a couple of other T Morriseys .. who also look likely to be mobilised reservists in 1914 ... one in 36th Brigade..[but looks to have enlisted 1903-ish] ..... another listed in the National Roll of the Great War - Manchester volume who also served in Mesopotamia.. but was back at Cambrai in 1917 i think [this volume of the NRGW is online somewhere I seem to remember..] .. so I wonder if the man listed in the 1901 census is your man.. as he appears to be serving in 92nd Bty in 1901 before he enlisted in Sept 1902... if I understand you correctly

[lmc2489]

thank you for you help and time with this.

Regards

Liam

[battiscombe]

Liam - there has been another recent post which points out that regulars [on 12 yr enlistments] could be expected to do another additional year in wartime.. becoming 'time expired' after 13 years not 12. That then makes sense that Thomas enlisted Sept 1902 [so not him listed in 1901 census then, presumably], .. an enlistment which would normally have expired Sept 1914.. but was extended for a further year due to outbreak of war...to Sept 1915.. actually getting out in October 1915.

[lmc2489]

Apologies for late reply, thank you, yeah it makes sense now to be fair.

My father (who is 68) lost his father when he was very young (6) so a lot of the family history on that side is very sketchy, they thought he was born in Ireland which led me to the 1901 CENSUS, however i really was insure with that. But what you have explained and with you seeing the records pretty much makes a whole lot of sense.

I am getting my head around a lot of stuff with the research now, due to the vast knowledge of you guys on here. And yes all this does get obsessive, love it!

The AWOL side of his service was easy to work out, he returned on the 3rd Aug 16, his daughter my Grandmother was born on the 5th Aug 16.

Thank you for your help.

Regards

Liam

[battiscombe]

Good! This is all interesting to me as I have assembled a reasonably full roll of the regular gunners in 2nd Division in 1914 - and their records [where they survive or where elements can be reconstructed) .. my own grandfather being in 36th Brigade RFA..., which fought beside 41st Brigade through the war. This is a detail from the 1914 star roll for the 41st Bde.. .. the pencil note on the left i think relates to the issue of the Mons clasp I think

[lmc2489]

Wow..this is just fantastic, looking at that entry....its hard to explian how one feels when you se all this history of family members that i never knew, just heard about.

And similarties with my ancestors military service and mine, Thomas's last two being the same as mine on his service number, i was in B Battery 1RHA, although not the same as his service with 66Bde, but you get the idea.

Visiting the Basrah War Memorial during my time in Iraq, with the name of my Great Grandfathers and Grandfathers unit on, fantastic.

Yes i believe it is for his Mons Clasp, the rose as you know to be worn on his ribbon, i have recived a quote to have his medals replaced, and my Granfathers, which i will mount with my own.

I have only been into this research since Dec 13, my colleague is heavily into it, and shall we say i have seriously been bitten by the bug!

Regards

'UBIQUE'