General Service or British War Medal?

[Pamela22]

I’m rather confused about the medals my grandfather Harold Duce from Bradford was eligible for. On The National Roll of the Great War it says ‘He holds the General Service and Victory Medals’ but I can’t seem to find the General Service Medal amongst the list of medals for the Great War. The other names listed next to him also say they had the General Service Medal, and they all went abroad so surely it should be the British War Medal (not General Service Medal). Is this an error in the National Roll? I enclose a picture of the relevant page. Curiously, his name doesn’t even appear on the Index of Medals at all, although there is another Harold Duce there.

[welshdoc]

from the above he should have had a a british war medal and a Victory meda no star l. Trouble is there does not seem to be a matching medal card on Ancestry

[Pamela22]

This is why I'm confused. Not really sure why this General Service Medal comes into it at all, and the other men also have it listed too. I hope someone can explain this oddity.

[Chris_Baker]

You will see that the National Roll uses the term "General Service medal" for most men. Ignore their use of the term: the men got the British War Medal.

[Pamela22]

This is what I suspected. How confusing! So although he doesn't have a medal card would it be safe to assume he got the British War Medal and the Victory Medal for my family history file?

[Chris_Baker]

Not yet! The entries in the National Roll are notoriously inaccurate. This is particularly so of the list of battles in which a man is supposed to have taken part, but I have found (over the years) one or two that are 100% wrong. The only way to confirm his medal entitlement will be to either find the medals themselves or his service record or his entry in one of the RASC medal rolls. It may be that his card has given his name incorrectly, which of course makes life much harder.

[Staffsyeoman]

There is a Harold S Duce who served in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D2691160

and an H Duce who served in the York and Lancaster Regiment

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D2691149

and an H Duce who served in the Rifle Brigade

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D2691150

As often explained on here, place of abode is not necessarily a direct pointer to the unit served in - a man from Bradford could quite easily have served in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment - but the way to confirm is to look at the cards. I would strongly suspect that he is one of these three - unless he had another Christian name, but a search for 'H Duce' only brings up eight possibles.

[Pamela22]

Thanks for all that useful information. I will sign off now and maybe look at two of those. He is just Harold, so not Harold S Duce. I do have a few bits of paper which show his regtl no as 648189, Regt: Labour Corps, Unit: 229th Divisional Employment Corps. Another says Army Service Corps. I'm not a war historian so it's all rather confusing. I believe he was involved in transport and was also with the Pedlars Concert Party. I will search later. Many thanks.

[rksimpson]

Hi

Not Harold S Duce, he was killed - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/755091/DUCE,%20HAROLD%20STANLEY

regards

Robert

[Pamela22]

None of the three suggested links above look like him, they don't mention Army Service Corps or Labour Corps and I have official bits of paper with those written on them. I'm not sure where to go with apparently no service record and no medal card. The only place I can find him is in the National Roll. He died of 'flu in 1940 so I never met him, but amongst his things were a few WW1 papers but no medals.

[Pamela22]

I just tried an alternative spelling of Harold Dace on Ancestry, which shows WW1 pension records, service records and medal roll and yet the National Archives have nothing under that name. I'm not signed up to Ancestry at present, so will need something a bit more definite before paying.

[rksimpson]

Hi

Don't think so -

Harold Dace

Estimated Birth Year:

abt 1887

Age at Enlistment:

28

Residence:

9 High St Off Mossel End, Hulme Manchester

Document Year:

1915

Regimental Number:

22087

Regiment Name:

2nd Gwent G S 11Bn S W B

regards

Robert

[auchonvillerssomme]

This will confuse things

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A000471-00007/702186?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d0%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dharold%26gsln%3dduce%26sbo%3d0%26uidh%3dxh5%26pcat%3dMIL_AWARDS%26h%3d702186%26recoff%3d9%2b10%26db%3dMedalRolls%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

[Pamela22]

I can't see the Ancestry page as I'm not currently subscribed. I'd need to gather several lookups first to make it viable, have been yearly member in the past but now I only have odd bits to research. What does it say?

[auchonvillerssomme]

Quick copy it before the mods catch me.

Edited 21 January , 2014 by SPOF
Copyright images removed.

[Pamela22]

Thanks, but my Harold Duce's regimental number is 648189. Having that hasn't helped me find anything, though!

[Jim Strawbridge]

Thanks, but my Harold Duce's regimental number is 648189. Having that hasn't helped me find anything, though!

A search of the Medal Information Cards suggest that no medal was issued to ANY soldier in any regiment (or Corps) with the service number 648189.

[auchonvillerssomme]

I think that number is a Labour Corps number.

As a slight aside Is this the same man mentioned here?

http://www.basquechildren.org/-/docs/articles/col007

[Pamela22]

A search of the Medal Information Cards suggest that no medal was issued to ANY soldier in any regiment (or Corps) with the service number 648189.

How strange, the National Roll says different. Is it possible the records are lost? It seems there is no service record and no medal record. Labour Corps is right, I'm pretty sure.