MENTIONED IN DESPATCHES

[General Confusion]

I have recently received a copy of a piece of card headed 7th Division

It then gives No. Name, rank of my Granddad and Regt - 10073, Driver, J. Goldsworthy, 35 Battery RFA

It then says "Your Commanding Officer has informed me that you have distinguished yourself by conspicuous bravery on the field on 3rd October 1917

I have read his report and, although promotions and decorations cannot be given in every case, I should like you to know that your gallant action is recognised and greatly appreciated."

It is signed by H Shoubridge - Major-General

So far so good

Now for the dumb question :-

I no from the Diary of the Guernseyman Edmund Lenfestey that 35 Battery was at Passchendaele between Sep-Nov 1917 but is there anyway of finding out exactly what my Granddad's "conspicuous bravery" and "gallant action" was??

Many thanks in advance

PS I would have attached the copy but it was too big too fit

[rflory]

I notice that you have titled this topic "Mentioned in Despatches", but I think what you have is what is commonly called a 'divisional gallantry card'. These were issued by the commanding officers of divisions for actions that may, or may not, have been sufficient for the award of a decoration or mention in despatches. I have attached an image of a similar card issued by the GOC, 29th Division.

Dick Flory

[KevinBattle]

Your John E Goldsworthy first entered France on 23rd August 1914 and was thus entitled to the 1914 Star, with "1914" clasp and rosette for the medal ribbon.

That was with the RFA

At some stage thereafter, after 1916 he transferred to the RAMC as Private 206290 possibly after being wounded.

His British War and Victory medals would therefore show RAMC and not RFA as on the '14 Star.

It looks as if he was still in the Army in February 1920 when the officer in charge of E Company RAMC confirmed the oak leaf emblem for a Mention in Despatches.

There are pencilled notations that the 1914 Clasp shows only the initial "J" and that there was initially no record of the MiD (presumably why the RAMC had to confirm it)

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is one of my MIDs a 1917 ' Mentioned in Despatches ' certificate, interestingly signed by Winston Churchill.

LF

[kenf48]

His British War and Victory medals would therefore show RAMC and not RFA as on the '14 Star.

It looks as if he was still in the Army in February 1920 when the officer in charge of E Company RAMC confirmed the oak leaf emblem for a Mention in Despatches.

There are pencilled notations that the 1914 Clasp shows only the initial "J" and that there was initially no record of the MiD (presumably why the RAMC had to confirm it)

Sorry to contradict but the medals would be inscribed to the unit in which he was serving at the time he qualified for them i.e.the RFA; the BWM and Victory Medal are shown on the RAMC Roll as that was his last unit and they were responsible for issue. I'd suggest the blue 'x' from the Roll to the RFA references this.

As for the Mention in Despatches the pencil note 'No record of mention' is probably definitive and there is no IV for the emblem. The OC E Coy RAMC does not appear to be confirming anything, merely forwarding the Roll of individuals entitled to the Emblem which would no doubt be checked in the Medals Office.

I can find no mention in the LG and would agree with Dick at post 2 that it is a Divisional Card.

Although it is struck through in Dick's example (probably because he was a Regimental Commander!) what happened was that a man would be recommended for an award say the MM by his 'Regimental Commander' (i.e. Battalion) it would then go up through the chain of command through Brigade and by the time it got to Division the action would be competing with other awards. If the medal wasn't awarded or there was no MID (the Despatch being written by the Army Commander, i.e. above Division) then recognition was given as above and often read/presented at parades.

GC you can resize your copy if using windows in picture editor or in Preview on a Mac (or any number of free software apps) and that will settle it!

Ken

[krwells1968]

I am sorry to say I do not think your Grandfather was mentioned in dispatches.

The oakleaf emblem for the MID was annouced by an Army Order of 12 January 1920.

One month later (20 February 1920) the Depot of the RAMC (i.e. the administrative centre of the RAMC) forwarded a list of men they thought were entitled to get the new emblem - this is on the back of your Grandfather's MIC.

The proposed issue of an emblem to your Grandfather was included in file reference number "Em/2/855" , which is noted on the front of his MIC. However, no mention of a MID could be found and this was noted on the front of his MIC as Kevin mentioned. If your Grandfather had been mentioned in dispatches then an emblem would have been issued and this would have been mentioned on his MIC.

Lastly, I agree with Ken about the unit on you Grandfather's British War and Victory medals. It would show RA since this is the unit for all artillery - RFA,RGA and RHA.

Kenneth

[krwells1968]

I forgot to mention I did try searching the London Gazzette and could not find you Grandfather. However, it has a terrible search engine.

Additionally, a MID generally lead to another "MIC" being credited. These are generally just a A6 (?) record card (the type you can still buy) with some basic details written on it. They will appear when you search the MICs in Ancestry or the National Archives.

Kenneth

[KevinBattle]

Thanks for the correct interpretation, although Ken did misread my post

Your John E Goldsworthy first entered France on 23rd August 1914 and was thus entitled to the 1914 Star, with "1914" clasp and rosette for the medal ribbon.

That was with the RFA

Kenneth is correct though about the MiD NOT being confirmed, so all in all I think we've sucked all the marrow out!

[General Confusion]

Gentlemen

Firstly many thanks for all the efforts taken to shed light on my query.

Hopefully this time I have attached the MiD (if that is what it is).

My Granddad was demobbed from the RFA in March 1919 and re-joined the RAMC in Sep 1919 for one year - I have assumed for pension reasons (he was a regular or reservist from 1900) or the lack of jobs on civvy street.

The three campaign medals are made out to him as 10073 Driver Goldsworthy.

I know there is a pencil mark on the medal index card next to the "Em/2/855" which says "no record of mention" which is why I was so glad to get a copy of the attached from my Uncle in Australia.

The problem is how do find out what he did to get this mention or gallantry or whatever it is??

Thanks Richard

[General Confusion]

I don't the last attachment was much cop

Hopefully this one is more legible

[Old Owl]

Hi GC,

There are two possible ways in which you may find the reason (or at least get a clue) for your Grandfather's recognition at Divisional level. One is the Battery War Diary, where he may get a mention amongst a list of honours and awards; the second is through the local newspapers of the area where he lived at that time. I am not certain where else you could look.

Good luck,

Robert

[kenf48]

It is clearly a Divisional Gallantry card and not a Mention in Despatches. As the date of the action is given 3rd October 1917, it will be relatively easy to look up the war diary which is, I believe at TNA, to see what the Battery was doing.

The diary may either be at Brigade or Divisional level but will give deployments for the Battery.

The 7th Division was engaged in Third Ypres. The Battle of Polygon Wood officially ended on 3rd October (a German counter attack north of the Menin Road was repulsed on that day) and on the 4th October the Battle of Broodseinde began. The battery could have been involved in either action.

As I said in my earlier post he may have been recommended for a higher award but there were no doubt many such recommendations during Third Ypres and the rider on the card, 'though promotions and decorations cannot be given in every case' is significant and recognises any disappointment.

Ken