Liz Storey Posted 6 January , 2014 Share Posted 6 January , 2014 I am completing my husbands family tree and I have found his grandfather and all his brothers (3) and brothers in law (4) all living in St Pancras in London all of eligible age (22-34) but none serving in the first world war None of them have a special trade or as far as I can find an debilitating illness that could have effected there means to fight so how could they ALL have avoided being enlisted? Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol Stewart Posted 10 January , 2014 Share Posted 10 January , 2014 I am completing my husbands family tree and I have found his grandfather and all his brothers (3) and brothers in law (4) all living in St Pancras in London all of eligible age (22-34) but none serving in the first world war None of them have a special trade or as far as I can find an debilitating illness that could have effected there means to fight so how could they ALL have avoided being enlisted? Liz Hi Liz, May I ask how you know that none of them served in WW1? What records are you working with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Storey Posted 16 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2014 Hi Carol I have been through Ancestry and Military genealogy, Find my Past. Forces at War I know they survived the period as I traced them on the electoral registers after the war Liz Storey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 16 January , 2014 Admin Share Posted 16 January , 2014 It's very unlikely all eight men avoided military service of some description. On the introduction of the Military Service Act 1916 all men aged 19 to 41 who were unmarried were 'deemed to have enlisted' and placed on the Reserve http://www.1914-1918.net/msa1916.html One could imagine the four brothers had some similar physical characteristic which may have excluded them and by definition presumably the brothers in law were married. However without a name it's unlikely anyone can help you other than a broad generalisation. My paternal grandfather had three brothers, he and one brother served overseas and the brother was killed; one served in a Home unit and one did not join the armed forces, they were all shoe makers. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 I have been through Ancestry and Military genealogy, Find my Past. Forces at War If a man did not serve overseas then he would have no medal index card - combined with the number of records which were destroyed in the WW2 bombing of the record stores means that there quite a few men for whom no obvious records exist. Who are the brothers ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Storey Posted 22 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2014 Their names were Henry George Storey 1881-1942 Arthur John Storey 1877-1950? Alfred Storey 1883-1931 Horace Woodford 1882-1924 B in Law William World 1888 B in Law James R Chapman 1888-1962 B in Law Thomas H Brewer 1883-1943 B in Law They were all married when war was declared but that shouldn't have stopped them from being called up The brothers were Pianoforte stringers The in laws milkman,guard train ,Electrition and caretaker None of these were protected trades They all lived in St Pancras area of London I know about the burnt records but don't you think it's odd I cannot find any of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 22 January , 2014 Share Posted 22 January , 2014 There is a medal card for William E World. Enlisted 10/12/15 Discharged 27/8/19. Shown as R38201 KRRC Depot. The KRRC cards seldom give Battalion...as in this case. Depot could have been in UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Storey Posted 22 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2014 Yes I found that card thank you and put it to one side only because it was impossible to confirm it was him as you say without any additional info on the card it's taking a leap of faith and I suppose as all the others had no records I thought negatively ! I did try him on other sites but found no more information Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 22 January , 2014 Share Posted 22 January , 2014 As there is no Theatre of War given it is more likely this man stayed in the UK, One possibility is the depot in Sheerness Kent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootrock Posted 22 January , 2014 Share Posted 22 January , 2014 I thought you only got an MIC if you went overseas. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 22 January , 2014 Share Posted 22 January , 2014 You might be right. This is the first one with no theatre shown that I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm45 Posted 23 January , 2014 Share Posted 23 January , 2014 This lad William did serve overseas its on his SWB ROLL info Discharged with wounds. If Horace Woodford was a milkman and son of Horace and Ellen born Southampton there's a Mercantile marine card for him on the Kew site. Also on the Swb rolls is a Thomas H Brewer who served in Royal Fusiliers G64325 if you look at the enlistment date of William E World and this lad they are both 10/12/15....a good chance that brothers enlisted together....no conclusive evidence to back it though.TH Brewer also discharged with wounds in 1919. Ady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 23 January , 2014 Admin Share Posted 23 January , 2014 You might be right. This is the first one with no theatre shown that I have seen. The important point is 'Date entered Theatre'. This is very rarely shown for Other Ranks after 31st December 1915 (i.e. the date qualification for the 14-15 Star) after that date the entitlement was to the BWM and Victory Medal (or in the case of those who left home shores but did not enter a theatre of war e.g. India; Gibraltar etc. the BWM) the theatre is incidental. It is usually shown for officers, as always there are exceptions either way. The card referred to for William E. World, to be pedantic is a Silver War Badge Card and the Depot is shown as that was where he was when he was discharged, in other words he was not on active service. The reference to the Rolls will tell you which Battalion he served in when he first went overseas which was obviously, after December 1915 as the date of enlistment is shown. The date of enlistment of 10 December 1915 was before the Military Service Act and means he was a Derby Scheme volunteer, (as was Thomas Brewer) which in turn means there was still an element of choice over which Regiment he joined. Certain Battalions of the KRRC recruited in London. As to whether or not this was your William E. World you need to cross reference him with the information on census etc. for example there is a William E World b. 1887 d. Islington 1953 (there is another born 1864 - he was too old to join the Army) I can find only one in the 1911 Census William Edmund Ward and electrician b abt 1888 and married to Adelaide who I assume is your man at post 6. I don't think it's that much of a leap of faith, now if his name had been J. Smith.... However if you can find the Absent Voters List for 1918 for the electoral district that will confirm it as they all appear to have survived. If they were wounded there were often reports in local newspapers (and sometimes lists of volunteers were published). Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 23 January , 2014 Share Posted 23 January , 2014 The card referred to for William E. World, to be pedantic is a S ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 23 January , 2014 Share Posted 23 January , 2014 The in laws milkman,guard train ,Electrition and caretaker None of these were protected trades Not a big help, but being 'protected' or not doesn't appear to make a huge difference as far as I have determined in my research into local tribunals. For example, I have noted both a milkman and a caretaker given conditional exemptions (the condition being they didn't change their jobs), because (they argued), a) their business would fold if called up, and b ) they were providing a vital local service that nobody else was. A common extra condition was to join the local VTC. It is therefore possible that all of your chaps avoided conscription, but unlikely I grant you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 23 January , 2014 Admin Share Posted 23 January , 2014 The mic for Thomas H Brewer G/64325 RF shows he originally went overseas with the Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment 241556. This is a Territorial Force number that was reallocated to the 5th Bn in March 1917, as the four digit number is not shown on the mic it's unlikely he went overseas before then. According to the LLT this Bn was broken up in September 1917 and men sent to other units as replacements. While it's impossible to look at his motivation direct recruitment to the TF and the option for Home Service (again with exceptions) effectively ceased in February 1916. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 23 January , 2014 Admin Share Posted 23 January , 2014 203330 Henry G Storey also has a SWB card. He was conscripted on the 4th August 1916 and discharged from the 4th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers due to sickness on 2nd May 1917, he did not serve overseas so no mic. He also has a TF number. He is the only Henry G I can see, though there are lots of Henry but many of those can be eliminated. 'Sickness' has a wide definition as the only other category was 'wounds' and could simply mean he was unfit for active service in any category. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 23 January , 2014 Share Posted 23 January , 2014 The card referred to for William E. World, to be pedantic is a S ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Storey Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Can I start by saying thank you for all your help so far . I am a rooky at this war research and have only used military sites I have a terrible time on the National Archives site never finding anything so I have a few questions Sorry what do you mean to be pedantic it is an S? Do you mean the middle initial? what is a SWB card and where did you find it? What is the mic and where did you find this? Swab Rolls? Where did you find this? Anyone managed to look at the Middx Reg Tribunal records that went on line this week? I wondered if I would find any of my relatives there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Storey Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 To Old Sweats My Horace Woodford was born in Islington of Alfred and Harriet so not your man unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 24 January , 2014 Admin Share Posted 24 January , 2014 The best place to start your research is on the parent site the long long trail (LLT) http://www.1914-1918.net If you look at this page http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/interpretmic.html you will see 'the third type of card'. This is a Silver War Badge (SWB) card they are found in the medal index cards (mic) which are on Ancestry or downloadable from the TNA. The SWB Rolls are also on Ancestry see also LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/swbrecords.html I have no idea what posts 14 and 18 are about! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 The best place to start your research is on the parent site the long long trail (LLT) http://www.1914-1918.net If you look at this page http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/interpretmic.html you will see 'the third type of card'. This is a Silver War Badge (SWB) card they are found in the medal index cards (mic) which are on Ancestry or downloadable from the TNA. The SWB Rolls are also on Ancestry see also LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/swbrecords.html I have no idea what posts 14 and 18 are about! Ken When you refer to S do you mean SWB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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