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mcassell

Villeseive 1918

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mcassell

Does anyone know where Villeseive is? It is not on Google maps and the closest reference I have got is somewhere east of St Quentin. I am trying to trace what Division was in the area during the first few days of the German March offensives.

Thanks

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Phil Evans

Is it possibly Villeselve, SW of St. Quentin, East of Roye.

66D.Q.35.d / W.5.a

Phil

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Colin W Taylor

Gunner Parr

According to a quick search of the Official History on 23rd March elements of the engineers and pioneers of 14th Division were in the area of Beaulieu nearby - presumably the three RE Field companies and a company of 11th King's Liverpools. A scratch force of gunners named after its leader, a Lieutenant Colonel Theobald, were in Villeselve.

There is later mention of 12th King's of 61st Bde, 20th Division and 2nd R Irish Rifles of 107th Bde, 36th Division. Cavalry of 3rd Cavalry Division were also present and five squadrons launched a cavalry charge.

I hope this helps - not that it narrows anything down.

Kind regards

Colin

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mcassell

Thanks for the help. It certainly is Villeselve! I am trying to find some information about 14 Battalion MGC (14th Division) in the first few days of the German March 1918 offensives, as their surviving War Diary only begins in June 1918

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robertb

mcassell,

Did you make any progress on this thread?  I too have a 14 Battalion MGC (14th Div) casualty from the German offensive.

Pte. Albert Hill 116424.  Captured by the Germans but died a few days later (ICRC record available).  Buried by them at Vaulx-Vraucourt (50 kms away from where the 14th Division were!).  His body exhumed by CWGC and reburied at Vaux Hill Cemetery.

The lack of records is so frustrating.

Rob

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Colin W Taylor

Rob,

 

The CWGC states 41st MG Bn which would explain the location of his burial better. 

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/614462/hill,-albert/

 

I'm pretty sure they were back from Italy by then. 

 

Regards

 

Colin

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robertb

Thankyou Colin.

I think I didn't explain it very well.  If he was captured on the opening day of the German offensive (21 March) in the Urvillers/Itancourt area, he had a life threatening injury (a GSW to his groin area), why did the Germans take him about 50 kms north to Vaulx-Vraucourt where he died on 27 March?  The Germans buried him at 57C I.1.b.3.5.  He was exhumed from this site and reburied about 1.2 kms at Vaulx Hill Cemetery.

Rob

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Colin W Taylor

Rob,

 

You may need to provide further information and quote the documents above.  I can only find the document below stating he was buried and the CWGC concentration page re-interring him.

 

 

Edit - For others, the previous thread also covers this.  Charlie1 suggests he died on arrival at the main dressing station near the above cemetery.  

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

Colin

 

Hill.jpg.a76cc9f65ad577d26ced853da3d571dc.jpg

Edited by Colin W Taylor

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MaxD

Robert b

 

Both this and the previous thread are putting 41 Bn MGC in 14 Light Division.  It was in 41 Division which at the beginning of the German offensive was about 10 miles west of Vaulx-Vraucourt.  Makes sense to me!

 

Max

 

 

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robertb

It would make more sense I agree if he were in the 41st Div.  The CWGC site states he was in the 41st Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) which I take to be in the 14th (Light) Division, in the 41st Brigade. I don't read it as 41st Machine Gun Battalion which would be in the 41st Div.  If he was in the 41st Division then my premise of taking him 50 kms North does not stand.

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MaxD

No.  41 Company MGC was in 14 Division.  41 Battalion MGC (which was formed out of the 3 brigade companies of 41 Division just a few days before his death) is the unit which GWGC is describing.  I suggest you look at the 41 Battalion diary and note where they were deployed and the proximity to Vaux Vrancourt.  He was taken just a few km after capture.

 

As you have yourself observed, going 50 km northwards with a wounded prisoner makes no sense at all.

 

Max

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Colin W Taylor

Max,

 

Agreed.

 

Rob

 

CWGC states 41st Bn MGC - https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/614462/hill,-albert/

 

The supporting docs on the CWGC also stated this though one states only 41st MGC. His concentration document mentions the Dorset Regt who he presumably served with pre-MGC.

 

You can draw your own conclusions.

 

Regards

 

Colin

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MaxD

41 Bn MGC war diary 21/24 March attached.

 

Max

 

 

 

 

41 Bn MGC.jpg

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robertb

Thankyou all very much.  I am really pleased that this issue has been cleared up and my scrambled mind put to rest.

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MaxD

Delighted for you!

 

Max

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