Philbradley Posted 29 December , 2013 Share Posted 29 December , 2013 I'm quite a novice on here , I'm researching a long lost family member Pte albert sydney rimes K I A 25-3-1918 part of "c" company 7th batalion northamptonshire regt, I'm told he is buried at pargny cemetery but I cannot find any proof all I find is that he is on the pozieres memorial ? I wish to visit pargny but I wish to be sure ? Any ideas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 30 December , 2013 Share Posted 30 December , 2013 Phil Pargny has 600 casualties from the actions of the Somme Crossing on 24 March 1918 according to the Cemetery Notes,over 450 of them unidentified to a grave. I note that Albert's name is not listed there. It might just be that these casualties were added to the Pozieres Memorial anyway. Maybe someone here will know for sure what the policy was in these circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 30 December , 2013 Share Posted 30 December , 2013 Hello Phil, Where is the reference to Pargny from? I can't locate it on anything I have on Albert. As far as I could tell he was killed somewhere around Curchy-Dreslincourt Station near Nesle. Pargny is about 5 miles east-north-east of where his battalion was on the 25th. They had been east of Pargny and the Somme river at Flez on the 23rd, but had withdrawn back as far as Chaulnes, north-west of Curchy on the 24th. Bearing in mind the fluidity of the events of those few days he could certainly have been buried there, but I don't have any evidence at all in what I have to say that he was. By the way, have I mentioned about the Rimes Cup that was created in his memory? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbradley Posted 31 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2013 Hi no you haven't mentioned it if you could let me no that would be great ! Alberts brother visited in 1920 and his daughter about 20 years ago I think I'm finding more out tmw from them , apparently there are 2 unmarked graves from the northamptonshire regt in pargny , I will see a photo tmw and know more then , thanks for replying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 31 December , 2013 Share Posted 31 December , 2013 I'll have to see where I saw the reference. I think it was fairly early in the 1920s - Peterborough Athletic Club that became Peterborough Cycling Club set up a memorial race in his memory as far as I remember. The race is still run today. See the July 2014 events here: http://www.peterboroughcyclingclub.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=768&Itemid=88 I am sure I took a photo of the trophy in the local papers at some point. As for the Pargny burial, the cemetery is certainly in the right area, and two of the five named burials of the Northamptonshire Regiment at the Cemetery are from the 7th Battalion and on the 25th March 1918. Events were certainly moving at a rapid rate at that point, so it is possible that he (and the other two 7th Battalion men) was killed on say the 23rd and buried before or during the withdrawal, or alternatively he may have been buried by the Germans after being killed at the station on the 25th March 1918. If the latter, then there may be some information in the German archives and the information sent back to the UK via the International Committee of the Red Cross. The latter's records are being digitised and may be available from 2014 depending on progress, but I believe that depends on funding. Looking back at the previous topic, I would suggest that he was buried by the Germans since the newspaper articles are very clear about his death at the railway station. Bill Poole's fate as a POW also suggests that it was the Germans that buried Albert Sydney Rimes. Steve. Edit: I have now found the article from the Peterborough Standard of 28-4-1922 (my folder of 11-5-2013 for my reference). It describes the cup as the Sydney Rimes Memorial Trophy and notes that the donor was a Mr W Rimes {presumably Sydney's father Walter Rimes}. The race took place over 25 miles with 3rd Place (by handicap) going to "C. Rimes" {possibly Sydney's younger brother, Charles Herbert, who would have been about 22 then}. A Mr C Beeby (no relation as far as I know!) also rode. There is a picture of the trophy in the article: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbradley Posted 1 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2014 That is remarkable ! Charles was his brother also a keen cyclist( my grandmothers father ) I will pass the information on tmw ! Once I see the war grave photo tmw! I will no more about albert Sydney's resting place ! You are such a help and is truly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 1 January , 2014 Share Posted 1 January , 2014 Just seen the cycling website above, to far away for me to race in. Sad it has dropped from 25 miles(the distance to time trial at) to 20 miles. Hopefully the club will keep the event going, so many cups and awards go by the wayside today. A lovely cup and act of rememberance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbradley Posted 1 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2014 I have found out Albert rimes grave is one of 2 northamptonshire regt graves in a small cemetery in pargny and not in the commonwealth cemetery ( also a picture of William Pooles grave ( if intersted ? ) albert was killed and buried at the spot in an orchard and then moved to his resting place where he is now . I also have a small book " history of the raising of the 7th battalion "some excellent photos all which have been kept together all these years ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 1 January , 2014 Share Posted 1 January , 2014 The History of the Raising of the 7th is a very good book covering their raising and training - an often omitted part of a battalion's life. The CWGC page for Pargny states that they moved some graves from "Pargny German Cemetery, which was a little way North-East of Pargny Church, contained the graves of 32 soldiers from the United Kingdom", though if Albert's grave was identifiable after the war when visited it would be odd not to move it as a named grave at a later date. The other possibility is that the graves were somewhere else entirely. What details does the photo have of surrounding graves as they may hold the key to a location. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 1 January , 2014 Share Posted 1 January , 2014 Somewhat confused by this interesting thread. I note that the CWGC list 149 casualties at PMC but that 600 casualties are referred to elsewhere in this thread. Are the 2 Northants graves in PMC? Is the position that they cannot be named as the 2 casualties are indistinguishable one from the other - but may have been in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbradley Posted 1 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2014 When they went to pargny around 15 years ago they said where he is buried are no more than about 40 graves there and just 2 next to each other saying men of the northamptonshire regt died 25-3-1918. We aren't sure why it wasn't named after the war . All they could tell me is the above and that he died in an orchard then his grave moved to pargny ? The photo they are looking for this week but say its at the bottom of a hill next to a quiet road in pargny .Seems strange why they are there , I just want clarification as wish to visit the site in the summer , Regards Phil Also again appreciate letting me no about the rimes cup I have contacted the club for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbradley Posted 1 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2014 Ian Could be as I no he was killed by a shot to the head ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 1 January , 2014 Share Posted 1 January , 2014 Somewhat confused by this interesting thread. I note that the CWGC list 149 casualties at PMC but that 600 casualties are referred to elsewhere in this thread. Are the 2 Northants graves in PMC? Is the position that they cannot be named as the 2 casualties are indistinguishable one from the other - but may have been in the past. Ian You had me guessing there so I returned to the Cem Notes and it does say 600 of which 450 unidentified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 1 January , 2014 Share Posted 1 January , 2014 Thought you might be interested in the location of Pargny WC from the "White Cross" Touring Atlas. It is cem. 1854 in red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 1 January , 2014 Share Posted 1 January , 2014 Ian You had me guessing there so I returned to the Cem Notes and it does say 600 of which 450 unidentified. Of course, the smaller number refers only to the identified. Thanks. Phil - there are approx 200 Northants listed on the Pozieres Memorial for March 1918 so would presume that the ID and dating of these men as 25.3.18 casualties comes from the German cemetery details if they came from there or it was inferred from where they were found in the orchard and cross referencing to the battle history of their battalion. Wonderful that his name lives on engraved on a cycling trophy that is still competed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 1 January , 2014 Share Posted 1 January , 2014 Just for reference the previous topic on Albert Sydney Rimes is here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=47784&page=2&hl= Discussion on Albert commences at post #48. The reference to the station (albeit unnamed) seems to confirm that Albert was killed on the 25th March 1918 at the station of the Curchy-Dreslincourt-Potte Road. Albert Rimes was presumably buried by the Germans when the British withdrew, Bill Poole being taken POW but later apparently died of his wounds, being buried at Cologne. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/330291/POOLE,%20WILLIAM Pargny, to the east, and behind the German advance by the 25th March 1918 would be a likely place for them to have buried casualties from the battalion, though whether they did may be a question for the German or ICRC archives to answer. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 1 January , 2014 Share Posted 1 January , 2014 Thanks for the link to the earlier thread Steve - fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbradley Posted 2 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2014 Thanks for the help just a tad confused why he is on the memorial and we no where he fell etc but doesn't have a marked grave ? I remember you saying about bill Poole he was who albert rimes was trying to assist , but to add confusion I have a picture of William Pooles grave with a wooden cross presumably taken by Alberts brother Charles when he cycled there in 1920 ? It clearly says William Poole on the cross but as you said before he is buried elsewhere ? I will use all this info and piece it together and plan a trip to France . Regards phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 2 January , 2014 Share Posted 2 January , 2014 Thanks for the help just a tad confused why he is on the memorial and we no where he fell etc but doesn't have a marked grave ? Regards phil Phil - it is not that uncommon for men to be on one of the many memorials to the missing plus have known grave. Also, the CWGC will only name a grave if the proof is definitive. If he was in the German cemetery and then was moved to the British cemetery, I suppose he may well not have had a named grave originally. Alternatively, its conceivable that the IWGC/CWGC may have chosen not to accept the earlier German ID if there was any doubt about it. This grave transfer may be recorded in the CWGC archive and you could write to them about it. It might be possible to get details of the original German burial from the Red Cross archive as has previously been suggested. Could the picture of William Poole's grave in Cologne have been provided by some third party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbradley Posted 2 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2014 I suppose so ? It was found in Alberts soldiers small book I presumed it was his until I looked closer at the name . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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