fitter Searjeant

[leigh]

Hi,

Came accross a guy on the online MIC's as follows

Medal card of Burrows, Geo A

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Field Artillery 85947 Filter

Royal Garrison Artillery 196087 Fitter Serjeant

I am guessing the 'Filter' is a typo.

If fitter is right, what was his role?

Regards

Leigh

[Tom Morgan]

Essentially, a fitter is a mechanic who maintains and repairs large pieces of machinery, so your man would have been based in the workshops. I would say.

Tom

[leigh]

Tom,

So there would have been say a fitter in each battery you think to repair the guns?

This is not one of my men by the way, I just found him by accident scrolling through the MIC's and it interested me.

L.

[Jamie1906]

Leigh

Not being an expert in this field, i feel that this is possible answer to your question

The maintenance / repair etc of Artillary pieces was the remit of the REME Gun Fitter.

Within a Unit was also the REME LAD (Light Aid Detachment) who inspected and repaired the units equipment and vehicles.

The LAD was subdivided into Fitter Sections which are a group of tradesmen of various ranks (Vehicle Mechanic, Vehicle Electrician, Armourer, Recovery Mechanic

and a Gun Fitter) assigned to a particular Company, Squadron, Battery etc.

The Fitter section is generally ran by either a Staff Sgt or a Sgt.

Different Units had variations on the of theme.

So i assume in those days that the Artillary looked after its own equipment and hence the reference of the Fitter Sgt in the RA.

Jamie

[Tom Morgan]

Tom,

So there would have been say a fitter in each battery you think to repair the guns?

This is not one of my men by the way, I just found him by accident scrolling through the MIC's and it interested me.

L.

I'm not certain about this, Leigh, but I'm sure that someone will know. Jamie has already given some answers. I'm pretty certain that fitters and similar support staff were based in centralised workshops and I think these were part of the divisional arillery's organisation.

Tom

[Chris Best]

I'm not certain about this, Leigh, but I'm sure that someone will know. Jamie has already given some answers. I'm pretty certain that fitters and similar support staff were based in centralised workshops and I think these were part of the divisional arillery's organisation

LAD was subdivided into Fitter Sections which are a group of tradesmen of various ranks (Vehicle Mechanic, Vehicle Electrician, Armourer, Recovery Mechanic

and a Gun Fitter) assigned to a particular Company, Squadron, Battery etc.

The Fitter section is generally ran by either a Staff Sgt or a Sgt.

Different Units had variations on the of theme

I raised a thread on military workshops a few days ago; no response. Combine that with the replies to this thread and I start to wonder whether there is much knowledge about REME antecedents or are they simply an unglamorous bunch.

Chris

[KONDOA]

This is a strange rank for RGA. I would have expected him to be Farrier Sergeant and wonder if it is an error from the MIC scanning process.

Roop

[ALANJONES]

Leigh

I have seen a reference in description of artillery action saying something like "X the fitter had a busy time rushing from gun to gun to keep them in action"

If I can find the actual details I will post them!

Alan

[Muerrisch]

no REME in Great War

[Old Tom]

Hello,

Fitter and artificer (it has its origins with the French for those who work with explosives - a modern firework is a feu d'artifice) are ancient terms. Prior to the centralisation of repair support in REME in 1942 units with mechanical equipment had a number of tradesmen, often called fitters, to do running repairs. In the artillery the senior chap often a staff sergeant or warrant officer was called a 'gun tiffy'. There was a thread a few days ago about how guns wore and, for example, the tiffy would be the chap with the training, experience and tools to measure barrel wear. Support was provided by AOC workshops and I think some AOC officers were authorised to declare guns in need of replacement by stating that the gun (ordnance) was provsionally condemded.

Old Tom

[Dave Phillips]

Just come acros this chap.

A fitter attached to a Battery and 'Died of Wounds', would suggest that he was in the firing line.

Name: CLENT, GEORGE PERCIVAL

Initials: G P

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Fitter

Regiment: Royal Field Artillery

Unit Text: "A" Bty. 242nd Bde.

Age: 27

Date of Death: 13/09/1917

Service No: 835288

Additional information: Son of George and Thurza Clent, of Birmingham; husband of Nellie Clent, of 2 back, 7, Speaking Stile Walk, Bath Row, Birmingham.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: I. B. 24.

Cemetery: GODEWAERSVELDE BRITISH CEMETERY

Dave

[CSMMo]

Extract from the War Office Letter 121/Mediterranean/1094 (M) date 19th August, 1916 - Establishment for a Mountain Battery -

4 Fitters or Wheelers, 3 for the Battery and 1 for the Ammunition Column.

[bcerha]

Nothing strange or unusual about there being a fitter in a battery. Most soldiers in the RHA, RFA and RGA at this time were trained to operate or "serve" the guns (ie fire them) or indeed move them about around the battlefield - ie the drivers etc.

But remember the guns in service in 1914 with the BEF and onwards (the QF 13lb, QF 18lb and 4.5 inch How) were almost the first guns of the "modern generation", they had come into service less than ten years before and unlike earlier guns they incorporated on-board hydraulic recoil and run out mechanisms which reduced the shock of firing and improved accuracy. As such they incorporated many more working parts and required a mechanic or more properly a "fitter" who kept the ordnance in good order - especially when they were firing at high rates, often well in excess of their design limits.

When this is so, parts wear out both through sheer use as well as from the effects heat and the pressures exerted within a gun during repeated firings. The effects of not maintaining a gun properly can be catastrophic and deadly to the detachment.

So this individual would have been in the gun line, moving between sections ensuring that each was working correctly, making running repairs if and when possible. If more complicated "surgery" was required a gun would no doubt be bought out of action or rested until it could be. Then anything from replacing hydraulic fluid, damper springs or indeed barrels could take place, often to the rear and within the echelon.

As this individual had to have a comprehensive working knowledge of the guns in his charge and all their technical specifications, it is not suprising that he was a SNCO. He may well have had a small team of lesser ranked assistants (hence quote above "3 fitters per battery") or indeed relied on the gun detachment themselves to assist him if major work was required. The "wheelers"* (or wheelwrights as I suppose they would be more properly called in civvie street) would have maintained the gun, limber and GS wagon wheels whilst the farriers would have kept the horses mobile. In all quite a support team to keep the battery on the road and in action.

(* "wheeler" in this instance not to be confused with the other meaning of the term "wheelers" which refers to the rear pair of horses closest to the wheels - hence the term)

As someone rightly points out, REME was not formed until 1942, (which is presumably when terms such as Light Aid Detachment and Field Workshop came into being). Until then these support elements would have been integral to the battery and capabadged as such and therefore none of them would be strange "appointments" rather than "ranks" to find in the RFA, RHA or RGA.

In todays RA we still have gun fitters - they are highly prized and valuable individuals who tend to be as rare as hens back teeth. They are REME capbadged and usually Sergeants. It is their job to ensure the correct maintainance and functioning of the ordnance on a modern gun. If you are lucky to have one in your own REME battery "fitter section" then it can mean the difference between a good and bad live firing exercise. However, ineviatbly these days there is just one per regiment, he is based in the regiments LAD or Workshop and is hence a highly prized and much fought over individual.

Hope this helps

Regards

David

[Chris Best]

David

Until then these support elements would have been integral to the battery and capabadged as such and therefore none of them would be strange "appointments" rather than "ranks" to find in the RFA, RHA or RGA.

So where did these guys pick up their technical training? Woolwich? Larkhill? Elsewhere? And when was the decision made to hand responsibility over to a new Corps (regiments do hate giving up cap badges to specialist Corps)?

Chris

PS

Are you serving RA on exchange?

[bcerha]

In answer to your first question, a little difficult because Larkhill and the ranges there were only established from about 1912 onwards and so at least initially I would say that the training was probably at Woolwich, which at that time and for still a considerable period to come the Depot and home of the RA.

Secondly, yes I am currently the British Liaison Officer at the US Army Field Artillery Centre at Fort Sill, Oklahoma.

regards

David

[leigh]

Thanks for the great replies guys.

Regards

Leigh