George Elder WW1 Hamilton Academy, war memorial, Lanarkshire

[juneproon]

Looking for date and place of death of George Elder.

George Elder is one of the 79 war dead commemorated on Hamilton Grammar School's WW1 memorial. (previously known as Hamilton Academy)

Service details: 3166 Trooper, 2nd Life Guards.

later ... 4060 Trooper, Guards, Machine Gun Regiment.

Not listed in CWGC.

Possibly died in the UK following the end of WW1 but before 1924.

Not listed on the Scottish National War Memorial.

June

[sotonmate]

George has a Pension Record on Ancestry UK, filed under his second number 4060. No info on his life after discharge in March 1919.

He was wounded on 27 Aug 1916 with the 2 LG,GSW Chest/abdomen and left arm and shipped home.

Back to France on recovery in May 1918,posted to 2 GMGR and damaged by concussion from shell explosion in Oct 1918.

Class Z Reserve on 26.3.1919.

[juneproon]

Thank you so much. I have managed to gain details of 78 men on our WW1 Memorial. George Elder proved highly illusive. The details you have given are invaluable.

I have 79 highly enthusiastic pupils collecting information on the 79 war dead. (They are treating the initiative in a serious and caring fashion).

Any related records from the old Hamilton Academy, Hamilton Town House Library archives and Low Parks Museum have long gone.

Therefore I felt it would be fitting to commemorate these men in a suitable way.

.

The memorial plaques have stood the test of time and have proved to be a solid, base line for research.

Following the Christmas break these pupils will be creating 79 sensitive collages, (A2 art works) for each of the 79 soldiers on our memorial.

regards

June

As a matter of interest, I have heard that currently a group of enthusiasts, linked to Low Parks Museum are transcribing the Cameronian's war diaries.

[kenmorrison]

This might be your man:

George Elder, age 29, and an Enginekeeper at a Steelworks, died on 13 April 1920 at Burgh Cottage, Station Road, Wishaw of Lobar Pneumonia. His father, David - a Foreman at the Burgh Cleaning Depot - registered the death. He was unmarried.

Ken

There is rather a good photo of your memorial on the Scottish War Memorials Project at

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic6058.html

[Tom Lang]

Hello June,

Welcome (fae Larkie) to the Forum.

Since you are new to the Forum, you can't send a PM until you have at least 5 posts.

I have sent you a PM.

Wishing you and your pupils great success with your project.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

[Tom Lang]

This might be your man:

George Elder, age 29, and an Enginekeeper at a Steelworks, died on 13 April 1920 at Burgh Cottage, Station Road, Wishaw of Lobar Pneumonia. His father, David - a Foreman at the Burgh Cleaning Depot - registered the death. He was unmarried.

Ken

There is rather a good photo of your memorial on the Scottish War Memorials Project at

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic6058.html

Hello Ken,

I doubt your man is the same George Elder.

On the Attestation Papers he signed up on 5th November, 1914, at Lanark.

He gives his age as 20 years and 6 months, which would make his date of birth about May 1894.

He gives his address as Kirkfieldbank, and he is a 'Student'.

The 1901 Census shows him living at 'Rowantree', Kirkfieldbank, with his parents as follows:

James Elder, age 34, Head, born Eddlestone, Peeblesshire, occupation Farm Grieve

Jeanie Elder, age 32, Wife, born Lesmahagow

George Elder, age 6, son, scholar

John G. Elder age 4, son

John Gilchrist, age 65, Father-in-law, fruit-grower.

His birth record shows he was born on 05 May 1894 at Kirkfieldbank, to James Elder and Jeanie Innes Gilchrist who were married in June, 1893, at Lesmahagow (Parish).

Jeanie Elder died on 02 Feb 1902 at 'Rowantree Cottage' Kirkfieldbank.

George would have been 7.

In the 1911 Census for Kirkfieldbank, he is living with his father, aunt and brother as follows:

James Elder, age 44, Head, Widower, Fruit-grower and Farmer, born Eddlestone, Peeblesshire

Margaret Elder, age 42, sister, born Newlands, Peeblesshire

George Elder, age 16, son, student teacher

John G. Elser, age 14, son.

Your man has a different father's name.

Your link to the Memorial is correct.

Tom.

[kenmorrison]

Thanks for that Tom - it was/is the only death I could find of the appropriate age and location.

Ho Hum.

The only other reference I can find is in 1911 when the family are in Lesmahagow

James 44, George 16, John G. 14 and Margaret C. Elder 42 who is I suspect the second wife of James.

Jeanie Innes (Gilchrist) Elder died in 1902 at Kirkfieldbank.

I assume they moved back to Kirkfieldbank (or at least George did) by 1914.

[Tom Lang]

Hello Ken,

In those days, the Parish name was used as the place of 'everything'. Births, deaths and marriage records all list the Parish name.

Kirkfieldbank is in the Parish of Lesmahagow.

The village of Lesmahagow is also in the Parish - very confusing.

The list of Parishes and Registration Districts is available here:

http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/list-of-parishes-registration-districts.html

The 1911 census shows Margaret Elder as a sister of James. She is shown as a 'domestic servant' and I assume it was to help take care of her nephews, which also helped her brother.

James was born in Eddleston, Peeblesshire.

Margaret was born in Newlands, Peeblesshire..

Kirkfieldbank is a village on the banks of the river Clyde. It is a very fertile valley for commercial fruit, tomato and flower growers.

George Elder's grandfather, George Gilchrist, is listed with the family on the 1901 census. He is shown as a fruit-grower.

James Elder is shown on the 1911 census as a Fruit-grower and Farmer.

I can't find a death record for George Elder (b 1894) on the ScotlandsPeople (spit) website.

Tom.

[Tom Lang]

I found a marriage record for George.

On 14 Apr 1927, at age 32, he married Mary Morton Watson, age 36, at High Street Carluke.

His occupation is a school teacher, and his address is 706 Dalmarnock Road, Glasgow.

His wife's occupation is a grocer, and her address is Manse View, Crossford.

The witnesses are his brother:

John Gilchrist Elder, 76 Buccleuch Street, Glasgow,

and

Jean Ritchie Kennedy, 15 Finnart Street, Greenock.

Children from the marriage are not going to show up because of the 100-year rule.

Still no trace of a death record.

Tom.

[Tom Lang]

Mary Morton Elder died in Carluke in 1976, age 85.

Reference GROS 581/00 0058.

Tom.

[Theletterwriter]

Nice bit of detective work Tom. There is a possible death for George Elder in 1972 aged 78 in Carluke : GROS REF. 581/00 250. I wonder why he was included in the school's roll of honour if the others recorded had lost their lives in the war.

Douglas

[juneproon]

Dear all,

many thanks for such a wealth of information from 'experts in the field'. Being a novice I am learning as I go along. It is thought that our George Elder must have died pre 1924 when the Memorial Plaques were dedicated.

Will check out all the details and try to verify the correct George. You have given me a lot to digest.

And Tom the kids are really soaking it all up. Many have a member of their family involved. Promises to be quite a revelation as they find out what things were like almost 100yrs ago.

Regards June

[Tom Lang]

Nice bit of detective work Tom. There is a possible death for George Elder in 1972 aged 78 in Carluke : GROS REF. 581/00 250. I wonder why he was included in the school's roll of honour if the others recorded had lost their lives in the war.

Douglas

Hello Douglas,

I think you have the correct death record for George.

I was still looking in the region of 1924, as indicated by June when she wrote "but before 1924".

Regarding the Memorial, he is listed under the heading 'Former Pupils'.

I don't think it is intended to show that he lost his life. Rather, to ensure that he is shown as having served in WW1.

Tom.

[Tom Lang]

Dear all,

many thanks for such a wealth of information from 'experts in the field'. Being a novice I am learning as I go along. It is thought that our George Elder must have died pre 1924 when the Memorial Plaques were dedicated.

Will check out all the details and try to verify the correct George. You have given me a lot to digest.

And Tom the kids are really soaking it all up. Many have a member of their family involved. Promises to be quite a revelation as they find out what things were like almost 100yrs ago.

Regards June

Hello June,

It is great to know that your pupils are 'soaking it all up'.

I have copies of all the records I've listed. In my PM yesterday, I sent my email address. If you would like copies of these records, please respond to my email address.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

P.S. And keep us posted here as to the conclusion of the project. We want photos... pleeeeeeeeeez!

[kenmorrison]

Hello Douglas,

I think you have the correct death record for George.

I was still looking in the region of 1924, as indicated by June when she wrote "but before 1924".

Regarding the Memorial, he is listed under the heading 'Former Pupils'.

I don't think it is intended to show that he lost his life. Rather, to ensure that he is shown as having served in WW1.

Tom.

Tom and Douglas - I'm sure you have the correct man and that he did survive the war.

However the memorial does state "......who gave their lives....." so he is included in error.

I'd also love some info on another man listed - "Gordon G Keddie, Calcutta Sco. Ind. Def. Fce."

Ken

[Theletterwriter]

Ken

I do not wish to hijack June's and her pupils efforts but it is possible that Gordon G. Keddie was Gordon Guthrie Keddie born on 15 December 1884 to David Byres Keddie and Jane Mayfair Keddie nee Guthrie in Cathcart. In the 1901 Census, the family have moved to Bothwell (which ties in nicely with the general area for Hamilton Academy). Children are Celia Mary (21), Elizabeth Guthrie (19), Jane ? (18) and Gordon Guthrie (16) who is described as an apprentice shipbuilder.

Douglas

[Tom Lang]

Tom <snip> and that he did survive the war.

However the memorial does state "......who gave their lives....." so he is included in error.

<snip>

Well spotted Ken, I didn't read it properly.

[Tom Lang]

Hello June,

Thanks for your email. I have replied with attachments.

Best of luck with the project!

Kindest Regards,

Tom Lang.

[kenmorrison]

Ken

I do not wish to hijack June's and her pupils efforts but it is possible that Gordon G. Keddie was Gordon Guthrie Keddie born on 15 December 1884 to David Byres Keddie and Jane Mayfair Keddie nee Guthrie in Cathcart. In the 1901 Census, the family have moved to Bothwell (which ties in nicely with the general area for Hamilton Academy). Children are Celia Mary (21), Elizabeth Guthrie (19), Jane ? (18) and Gordon Guthrie (16) who is described as an apprentice shipbuilder.

Douglas

That's him, Douglas. I "Googled" his full name and got lots of info including his gravestone photo in Calcutta and a family history at

http://www.geni.com/people/Gordon-Guthrie-Keddie/6000000008989534438

Cheers

Ken