Horse isolation hospital, Fargo, Salisbury Plain

[Moonraker]

Posted Today, 08:02 PM

I've yet to grace Amesbury Tesco, but will pop in when I'm down that way this summer. I'll also check out the Fargo Hospital site as far as I can legally.

I've seen various old maps of the Lark Hill complex such as at

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html

Enter the co-ordinates 410810 and 143660, which should bring you to a modern map of the Fargo area. On the right are various choices of old maps, including a couple of 1920s' maps that show the layout of the (disused) hospital buildings and one of 1939 showing, presumably, the original buildings of Fargo Lodge.

I can't spot any clues regarding the horse isolation hospital.

Moonraker

[Stoppage Drill]

R. PS All that land is now owned by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation

Yes, DIO is the organisation which has responsibility for the entire Defence Estate in UK. However, the relevance of mentioning that Fargo seems to "belong" to Larkhill Garrison rather than the Army Training Estate (Salisbury Plain) is that the Military Lands Byelaws don't apply in the garrison areas. The qualified rights of access permitted, by let, on the training areas don't extend to the various garrisons, and if you are wandering about the Plain it is best to be aware of the distinction.

[Stoppage Drill]

Posted Today, 08:02 PM

I've yet to grace Amesbury Tesco, but will pop in when I'm down that way this summer. I'll also check out the Fargo Hospital site as far as I can legally.

I've seen various old maps of the Lark Hill complex such as at

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html

Enter the co-ordinates 410810 and 143660, which should bring you to a modern map of the Fargo area. On the right are various choices of old maps, including a couple of 1920s' maps that show the layout of the (disused) hospital buildings and one of 1939 showing, presumably, the original buildings of Fargo Lodge.

I can't spot any clues regarding the horse isolation hospital.

Moonraker

Thankyou. I've had a look at the 1924 and 1926 maps in your link; the extent of the Military Hospital is much smaller than in the Tesco map, which shows many more buildings. The embankment symbol on the curve of the railway line which is perfectly evident on Mappo Tesco isn't shown on your link maps.

If my interpretation of the location of the photo I posted is correct, then the huts being constructed in the photo are some considerable way - a few hundred yards - to the south of the (human) Fargo Hospital.

My purpose in mentioning the present Mr Fuller was to highlight the fact that there is still somebody in Amesbury who may be able to cast more light on some of these old photographs.

[E Wilcock]

Returning to horses - I too would like helpful suggestions please. Re refs to Vet Corps and hospital, 4th S Midland RFA also trained on Salisbury Plain both pre war as a Territorial unit and in 1915.

For more than 10 years, husband and I have failed to discover much about vets, remounts etc. even when visiting IWM and Army museum catalogues.

It has now come to light that the remount system was possibly under the Army Service Corps and the war diaries might help?

[Moonraker]

Hi E Wilcock. It's preferable to start your own thread on your subject (perhaps adding a post here to that effect) rather for this one to stray off into general equine matters.(Some might point out that it's already strayed from the horse isolation hospital to the human hospital!)

I suspect that only a very few members are following this extremely localised thread and won't pick up on your own query. Indeed may I be immodest and say that the two main contributors - albeit about the soldiers' hospital - have been myself and Stoppage Drill.

The other danger is that if other people do start adding information here about equine matters all over the country, one or both of us - and perhaps Richard (if he hasn't done so already) - will lose interest and then fail to pick up on any fresh information on Fargo.

BTW, in recent months we've discussed remount depots at Purley (near Reading), Romsey and Russley Park, near Swindon (which interest me for geographical rather than equine reasons).

Moonraker

[Richard Osgood]

This is quite nice - a picture of RHA farriers in 1914. Postmarked Larkhill Camp Jul 1914. A.F.Marett Photographer, Shrewton. Could be nearby...?

R

[Stoppage Drill]

Not had time to dig any further into this . .http://www.pastscape.org.uk/hob.aspx?hob_id=1362713

[Moonraker]

Richard: quite possibly your pic is of Fargo, though I have 23 cards - four by Marett - specifically captioned Fargo.

Stoppage Drill: a nice find, but he page to which you link states:

"SU 1101 4379. Traces of a military complex known as the Horse Isolation Hospital, constructed at the northern end of Fargo Plantation, are visible on aerial photographs. Buildings and roads belonging to the camp are visible on aerial photographs taken in the early 1920s, although most had been demolished by 1934. Photographs taken in 1943 show a regular pattern of earthworks reflecting the location of the roads and buildings, as well as a number of small craters, indicating that some mine training took place on the site. "

The map reference relates to the SE corner of a large WWI complex of buildings that definitely comprise the human hospital.(They are shown on a 1920 OS map that I own.) I cannot see a horse isolation hospital being based here at the same time.

I suspect that there has been - and continues - to be conflation between the two hospitals. Earlier I have noted a reference to the horse hospital being at "Fargo Farm" - which I have yet to find on any pre-WWI map - though Fargo Down Barn is marked to the east of the plantation, as are Fargo Cottages, about 900 yards west of Stonehenge ((which presumably were demolished when RFC Stonehenge was built in 1917).

In his opening post, Richard has a date of 1914 for the horse hospital; if indeed it was at the map reference quoted, it would have made way for the human hospital in 1915. Before then, the local camping-sites were used only in summer, by infantry and with some artillery at Fargo Camp. So any permanent horse hospital would indeed have been isolated. I wonder if it was temporary, rather than permanent.

Finally, a few months ago I bookmarked this

Bing map

when I spotted it in another thread. One can navigate westward to Fargo, and to the north of the Packway there is indeed a curved mark that suggests the remains of the railway embankment. It's about 800 yards from what was the northern perimeter of Fargo Hospital. This relates to the only real curve on the line within good view of the hospital. The only snag is that on Bing and on contemporary maps the line S to N curves to the right, whereas in Stoppage's photo it curves to the left ....

(I did look at Bing Help to see if I could link more closely to the location, but my eyes glazed over a little, and I'm saving my nervous energy for setting up a new desktop tomorrow.)

Moonraker

[Stoppage Drill]

I absolutely agree with you about the conflation of the human and the horse hospitals, and had thought to post my suspicions, though you have pre-empted me.

I have a copy of a history of the RAVC 1919 - 1949. It has some pre-1919 (ie GW) inferences but nothing detailed enough to help us. However, reference is given to a history 1796 - 1919 by Gen Sir Frederick Smith. It also refers to the "Official History of the great War:Veterinary Services".

These are the places to look, I should think.

[Stoppage Drill]

Richard: quite possibly your pic is of Fargo, though I have 23 cards - four by Marett - specifically captioned Fargo.

Stoppage Drill: a nice find, but he page to which you link states:

"SU 1101 4379. Traces of a military complex known as the Horse Isolation Hospital, constructed at the northern end of Fargo Plantation, are visible on aerial photographs. Buildings and roads belonging to the camp are visible on aerial photographs taken in the early 1920s, although most had been demolished by 1934. Photographs taken in 1943 show a regular pattern of earthworks reflecting the location of the roads and buildings, as well as a number of small craters, indicating that some mine training took place on the site. "

The map reference relates to the SE corner of a large WWI complex of buildings that definitely comprise the human hospital.(They are shown on a 1920 OS map that I own.) I cannot see a horse isolation hospital being based here at the same time.

I suspect that there has been - and continues - to be conflation between the two hospitals. Earlier I have noted a reference to the horse hospital being at "Fargo Farm" - which I have yet to find on any pre-WWI map - though Fargo Down Barn is marked to the east of the plantation, as are Fargo Cottages, about 900 yards west of Stonehenge ((which presumably were demolished when RFC Stonehenge was built in 1917).

In his opening post, Richard has a date of 1914 for the horse hospital; if indeed it was at the map reference quoted, it would have made way for the human hospital in 1915. Before then, the local camping-sites were used only in summer, by infantry and with some artillery at Fargo Camp. So any permanent horse hospital would indeed have been isolated. I wonder if it was temporary, rather than permanent.

Finally, a few months ago I bookmarked this

Bing map

S to N curves to the right, whereas in Stoppage's photo it curves to the left ....

Moonraker

It would if you were looking from the other direction, i.e. looking south.

Optionally, the line curved in the other direction on the other side (W) of Fargo plantation, as it resumed its general direction towards Druids Lodge.

[Moonraker]

I absolutely agree with you about the conflation of the human and the horse hospitals, and had thought to post my suspicions, though you have pre-empted me.

I have a copy of a history of the RAVC 1919 - 1949. It has some pre-1919 (ie GW) inferences but nothing detailed enough to help us. However, reference is given to a history 1796 - 1919 by Gen Sir Frederick Smith. It also refers to the "Official History of the great War:Veterinary Services".

These are the places to look, I should think.

Certainly worth looking at, but I wonder how significant (any) horse isolation hospital would have been. I've extensively studied the First Canadian Contingent's time on Salisbury Plain from mid-October 1914 to early February 1915, including looking at many war diaries, and can't recall any reference to such a hospital. (BTW, the Canadians' Remount Depot was first at West Down Camp, then at Netheravon.) The Canadian horses suffered terribly on the Plain, having very little shelter, and the soldiers broke regulations and stripped copses for wood to form protection, but I found hardly any detail of how sick animals were looked after.

The Canadians had been promised a hospital for their sick men, but were hacked off to find that it hadn't actually been built yet - presumably this was the one planned for Fargo. When hundreds of Canadians fell ill, several large houses and Netheravon Cavalry barracks were taken over as makeshift hospitals.

Moonraker

[Stoppage Drill]

I'm now wondering just what a "horse hospital" would have consisted of. It may have been little more than a number of paddocks with some pretty lightweight stabling, which would have left no trace once removed.

There need not have been any permanent accommodation for human staff 24/7. Overnight duty staff could have been accommodated nearby - maybe at the human hospital - and vets and nursing staff might have travelled daily to the site as required, bringing any necessary medication with them.

An isolation hospital would not have required surgical facilities.

All in all, this could have been quite an ephemeral set up, maybe not even warranting marking on a map ?

[Moonraker]

My thoughts and those of Stoppage seem to be running in tandem. But military ownership of the Plain from 1897 onward led to the War Office acquiring many farm buildings; some continued in agricultural use, a few were used as targets, others (eg Greenlands, Newfoundland) accommodated range admin parties and equipment. It would have made sense to have used one, at least, to isolate sick animals. With, apparently, no pre-WWI buildings close to the north end of the plantation, I'm inclined to think that any horse hospital would have been at Fargo Down Barn.

Richard: why are you particularly interested in the horse isolation hospital and how did you come across it? We both know that the Plain abounds with lots of "interesting things", some of the WWI period, and you kindly showed me a few some years ago. So what's so special about a horse hospital (unless one happens to be a sick horse, of course)?

(BTW, this thread has the honour of experiencing my very first effort on my new desktop.

Moonraker

[Richard Osgood]

Ah,... well this all relates to my thinking on setting up a WW1 commemoration project locally with the artillery, local schools adn communities, all looking at 'War Horse'. I believe that horse bones may have been found in the locale during fieldwalking for the Stonehenge environs project. THere is a 1970 reference in Royal Artillery magazine but I have failed to find anything else. Keen just to see how much if anything can be found - I know more about things on the Plain that are 1000s of years old than somehing from 1914! Best R

[johnboy]

An isolation 'hospital for horses' may not have been a building. It could have been a few boxes and a building for staff. These days if a horse has communicable discease it has to be removed from other horses. This can be done by turning out into a paddock on its own or put in a stable away from other horses. Putting horses in a barn would be useless. There would be deceases that a horse would never be 100% again and not fit for service. I imagine that these would have been shot. It would be interesting to know how much time was spent on really sick horses.

[Moonraker]

One of a number of postcards showing the 1st South Midland Division Royal Field Artillery at Fargo in 1910. The shack is more likely to be a cooking-shelter (where food was prepared for the soldiers) than a ward for sick horses!

Some animals must have died there, but I imagine that there were regulations concerning the disposal of the carcasses. I have a Marett card showing a dead RGA horse struck by lightning on June 6, 1910; no location is given, but the Wiltshire Gazette says the death happened at Rollestone Camp, a mile or so from Fargo.

Moonraker

[johnboy]

The dead horses were probably disposed of by the knackers yard.

[E Wilcock]

4th S Midland Brigade RFA had their annual training at Salisbury plain 1908, 1910 and 1913 and returned there (from Essex) in Jan 1915 for training with the infantry. I too have a photo of the officers marked 1913, Rolleston, but when I recorded it on line and postualted other photos might have been taken there, I did not understand that was on Salisbury Plain.

Dead horses from an isolation hospital i.e. with infectious diseases, would not have been sent to a knackers yard. Then as now, there were strict regulations regarding the disposal of carcasses. Miller in his Horse Management in the Field (which I uploaded to my site) lists diseases which were to be recognised and specifies that glandered carcasses were to be buried or burnt. Anthrax carcases were to be buried whole (i.e.,without cutting the skin and spilling the blood); they should be covered with quick lime. As I said previously, it is very hard to find info about the horses, the organisation of their care and the training of farriers etc..

The vents in the top of the building in the photograph and the wind breaks are reminiscent of USA army stables. But I have no idea what they were. The only shacks mentioned in my material were small and used (I think) to keep the rain off harness, saddles etc. It would seem highly unlikely that a healthy gun team would be driven close to an isolation stable.

I also wondered reading your thread whether horses imported from America for British army use in WW1 were subject to any quarantine once they were de-shipped? And there might therefore have been a need for substantial isolation hospitals?

[Moonraker]

The Fírst Canadian Contingent brought with it 7,500 horses in mid-October 1914 and their care was left to the soldiers themselves out on the Plain - there was no quarantine. There are photos of the primitive shelters the men fashioned to protect the animals, but in my researches I came across few references to equine fatalities - though there must have been a large number.

I'm outside my subject area, but the impression I have is that remount depots accepted animals from overseas as soon as they arrived in Britain.

Moonraker

[Moonraker]

The project mentioned above in Richard Osgood's post 39 featured on a board at today's centenary commemoration briefing at Tidworth. Not sure if Richard was there?

Moonraker

[mrjustinhayward]

I had heard that there was an archaeological investigation planned soon but haven't found a reference yet

Justin H

[Moonraker]

I think that the "archaeological investigation" may be what Richard Osgood refers to in post 39. It may be that the idea is to use the public's interest in The War Horse to enthuse local youngsters to do some field work, but - as ever - I stand to be corrected.

If indeed there was ever a horse infirmary at Fargo, I suspect that any evidence of it will have been lost in the building of the large soldiers' hospital. Pottery, bottles and other minor artefacts are still thrown up by the ploughing of "Hospital Field" at Fovant, and, again I think, there has been an archaeological dig of the hospital waste tip at Sutton Veny. So field work at Fargo may well be productive.

Moonraker

[Moonraker]

Phew! Big bidding war going on for a 1918 postcard of a named nurse, R J Bale, at Fargo Hospital

on eBay

Usually such a card at a postcard fair would be priced at £4-5 or so. Cards relating to the hospital are very rare (I've yet to see one of the building), so I guess that the three contenders are "military Salisbury Plain" enthusiasts , related to the matron or connected to the project discussed in this thread.

Time was when one could contact other eBay bidders, but this is no longer allowed. Not that I would even think of getting in touch to say something on the lines of "hey buster, you ain't got a chance", but it was useful after the auction had closed to make contact to see why someone was so enthusiastic, and when I got involved in a bidding war for a card that the vendor suggested depicted the Wiltshire Regiment I was able to point out that it didn't, prompting my rival to back off.

Moonraker

[Moonraker]

... I was having a look at a photo/map display in Amesbury Tesco today - it's a permanent exhibition and it centres on the Larkhill Military Railway. Have you seen it ? (In the covered entrance area )

I popped in early yesterday morning and was impressed. I hadn't realised that the store was built on the site of Amesbury Station, the scene of so many troop movements a century ago The display included some very good photos, a couple of which I was unfamiliar with. It's the creation of local historian Norman Parker, who also organised the permanent aviation collection in a downstairs room of the George Hotel in the town centre.

Moonraker

[Stoppage Drill]

I popped in early yesterday morning and was impressed.

Hope you took your own bags.