58082 Flight Sergeant Charles Allen Pope

[Noor]

Hi all,

I am seeking information regards the Flight Sergeant Charles Allen Pope (58082). Especially did he became entitled for any awards during the WW1.

London Gazette reveals that he served as well during the WW2 as a Flight Lieutenant (35145) and retired 1949 as a Wing Commander.

Any information about him and his service would be great. Also if you can point out some directions where to look would be great as well.

Thanking you in advance,

Noor

[Airshipped]

Not much here, having glanced at my spreadsheets. Re World War II you might trace back his southern hemisphere wanderings in the interwar years?

On 17 March 1942 Charles Allen Pope and his wife Mabel Annie Pope arrive on the MV Taranaki from Wellington. His last place of residence is described as being New Zealand. His occupation is listed as RAF.

[Noor]

Thank you very much!

[Noor]

Hi,

First at all thank you very much for your help!

So far I have been able to find out from the London Gazette:

23rd November 1937 - Warrant Officer Charles Allen POPE is granted a permanent commission as Flying Officer on probation with effect from I2th November 1937 and with seniority of 23rd August 1937.

27th February 1940 - Commissioned Engineer Officer. Flying Officer Charles Allen POPE (35145) is seconded for special duty 29th September 1939. (what that input can mean???)

7th March 1941 - The under mentioned Flying Officers are promoted to the war substantive rank of Flight Lieutenant: I2th November 1940. (Seniority 2nd August 1940) Charles Allan POPE (35145).

2nd September 1947 - Promotion (substantive). Flight Lieutenant to Squadron Leader (subs.). 1st August 1947. C.A.POPE (35145)

11th January 1949 - Retirement. Squadron Leader C.A.POPE (35145 ) retaining the rank of Wing Commander. 7th January 1949.

I had been advised that he enrolled to the RAF already 2nd February 1917 but from where I can get that information (RAF enrolments?).

Also he was entitled Royal Air Force Long Service & Good Conduct Medal (Edward V issue). Does any sources can confirm that as well and the date?

How I can confirm where he served during both wars and what awards he became entitled to?

Can this New Zealand "trip" be some kind of RAF secondment, mentioned in the LG 1940?

Oh, I am newby on the RAF research field so any advise would be great!

[Noor]

I found another LG input from 2nd June 1942 - Flight Lt. C. A. POPE (35145) ceases to be seconded for Special Duty 6th April 1942.

[Noor]

Bring up this very old post - perhaps there is any new information available about him?

 

Also, did he settled in New Zealand then? Can't find much about him on Ancestry. 

The 1966 Retired List shows the following:

Technical Branch - Sqn Ldrs retaining the rank of Wg Comd:

"Pope, C. A. born 4/9/98. First Comm. 28/8/37. S.L. 1/9/47. ret. 7/1/49"

 

 

[DavidOwen]

No record of him under name or number in the RAF Airmen's records on FMP.

However he was a corporal in the RAF in 1921 (courtesy FMP)

[DavidOwen]

The RAF Muster Roll does show him as enlisting in 1917. I would suppose therefore that he did not serve overseas and so no medal entitlement.

[Tawhiri]

The birth of a Charles Allen Pope was registered in Hendon, Middlesex in the third quarter of 1898, which seems to match with his place of birth and birth year in the record that DavidOwen found. Similarly the death of a Charles Allen Pope, born on 4 September 1898, 125 years ago today coincidentally, was registered in Hampshire in 1972.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2F4C-32H

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCP-RQCP

Looking for a potential marriage, the marriage of a Charles Pope to a Mabel Sear was registered in the last quarter of 1924 in Watford, Hertfordshire.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVZ5-SRLJ

A search of the New Zealand passenger records doesn't throw up any obvious matches for Charles and Mabel either arriving, or departing on a date that would match with their arrival back in the UK in 1942.

If you think he was seconded to the RNZAF at some point during WW2, then @Errol Martyn might know more about the details of his seconded service.

Edited 5 September , 2023 by Tawhiri

[Tawhiri]

A look at the GRO Indexes shows that his mother's maiden name was Handley.

POPE, CHARLES  ALLAN  Mother's maiden name: HANDLEY  

GRO Reference: 1898  S Quarter in HENDON  Volume 03A  Page 273

Searching for other Pope/Handley births in the same time period leads to these two female births in 1896 and 1897.

POPE, HILDA  BESSIE  Mother's maiden name: HANDLEY  

GRO Reference: 1896  M Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 01D  Page 495

POPE, VIOLET  ARAMINTHA  Mother's maiden name: HANDLEY  

GRO Reference: 1897  D Quarter in HENDON  Volume 03A  Page 188

The death of a 6-year old Hilda Bessie Pope was registered in St Marylebone in the first quarter of 1902, which then dovetails nicely with this record from the 1901 England and Wales census of a 2-year old Charles A Pope, along with 3-year old sister Violet A Pope, and parents Allen and Julia living in Blenheim Terrace, St Marylebone, London, Middlesex.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9C2-X31

In the 1911 England and Wales census the family is now living in Willesden, Middlesex, although the mother seems to have changed both her name and age, and there is an infant sister under the age of 12 months, which suggests that Charles and Violet's mother has died, and their father has remarried. An assumption that would seem to be confirmed by the fact that Daphne's mother's maiden name is Geary according to the GRO Indexes.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW4H-MLJ

POPE, DAPHNE  DAINTREE  Mother's maiden name: GEARY  

GRO Reference: 1910  S Quarter in WILLESDEN  Volume 03A  Page 274

[Errol Martyn]

Noor,

Pope was an RAF officer sent to New Zealand on loan in 1939.

I have have a dozen pages from his RNZAF file that I could scan and copy to you if you care to provide me with your email address as a PM.

Cheers,

Errol

[Noor]

Many thanks all of you!

Errol, I sent you a message.

[Tawhiri]

Looking at both Charles and Mabel's middle initials, this is possibly a more likely marriage for them than the 1924 one in Watford that I found earlier. The marriage of a Charles A Pope to a Mabel A Roe was registered in the third quarter of 1929 in Andover, Hampshire.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV89-WFZX

[Noor]

many thanks again! To be clear, I have his LSGC medal - initially, when I got it, I was thinking that he may be from Ireland and therefore my interest. Now, when I know there isn't any connection at all, I am planning to move the medal on. Anyone, who replied and is a medal collector, and would be interested of it, please let me know and happy to offer it with discounted price for your time and effort.