Alan24 Posted 23 November , 2013 Share Posted 23 November , 2013 On a previuos thread, the very helpful KEVROW, by chance comment, pointed out that my Great Grandfather was enlisted into the Special Reserve, Something that the family was never aware of since his service records no longer exist. His son always claimed his father joined up on the first day war was declared and that he was in the Territorial Army - whislt these claims may not have been strictly accurate, the information provided by KEVOW seems to give some substance to the claim. This raises more questions than answers and I'm hoping some of the RGA experts can help here, so here goes: When was the RGA S/R created? I understand this was later than 1907/8 when the infantry S/R was created. His enlistment date is given as 04/04/1916 - is there any significance that this just happens to be his 30th Birthday? His MIC shows the prefix S/R to his regimental number. Is there anywhere else where this prefix would be shown? Is there any significance to the S/R in his service number 8101/283101? Enlisted on 04/04/16 and was in france by 19/05/16 - would this have been enough time to train a consripted civillian to be an HB gunner or is it evidence that he had some previous training? Any further explaination would be most grateful. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 23 November , 2013 Share Posted 23 November , 2013 When was the RGA S/R created? I understand this was later than 1907/8 when the infantry S/R was created. Alan. Alan, the RFA Special Reserve and the RGA Special Reserve were both created from the RFA Militia and RGA Militia in 1908. The General Annual Report on the British Army for each year from 1908 onwards shows the numbers. The first year "Special Reserve" is used for the RFA and RGA is 1908. I have the full returns including establishment up to 1911 and for 1912 and 1913 I only have the strength: Note that "Y" represents the Special Reservists and" X" represents the men still serving out their service as Militiamen having declined to convert to Special Reservists. Returns are for 1st October each year. Special Reserve:.....................RFA........................................RGA....................... ..............................Establishment....Strength..............Etsablishment....Strength 1908.........................14,973...............8,472.................1,440...................883 1909 Y......................12.000...............7,717.................1,440...................911 1909 X..........................-.......................846......................-........................40 1910 Y......................12.000...............6,260.................1,440...................824 1910 X..........................-.......................501......................-........................22 1911 Y......................12,000...............5,777..................1,440..................827 1911 X..................................................249................................................13 1912 Y......................?????................5,326...................????..................843 1912 X.....................................................94...............................................10 1913 Y.......................?????...............4,766...................????..................908 1913 X........................................................9...............................................-... Regards MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 23 November , 2013 Share Posted 23 November , 2013 Establishment and strengths from the Oct 1913 army return Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 23 November , 2013 Share Posted 23 November , 2013 in relation to "Enlisted on 04/04/16 and was in france by 19/05/16 - would this have been enough time to train a conscripted civilian to be an HB gunner or is it evidence that he had some previous training?" I would think the answer is No, this seems unlikely. This suggests to me that this enlistment is not his first, and he had previous service. In many case we know that prewar soldiers whose original enlistments (12 year, or 6 year if SR) were completed [some had been to France and been discharged] would become liable to service under conscription from 1916, and would be recalled/conscripted. . someone else may be able to confirm about early RGA SR numbering.. and it might be worth exploring records of other potential RGA SR men to see what happened to them and whether this is in fact a plausible narrative .. for example George Harry Beans RGA enlisted 1905 [RGA22185] .. discharged May 1914 unfit... but also looks to have a medal card SR8102 -283102.. so in fact suggests that previous service is likely.. but perhaps NOT in SR as this represents some quirk of 1916 numbering?? another ... Arthur Ledlie RGA 10330 --- enlisted 1902 ...discharged Jan 1914... but later SR8103, 283103.. so another conscripted [?] old soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 23 November , 2013 Share Posted 23 November , 2013 A month would seem exceedingly quick for a gunner without experience - I'd agree that there must be some form of earlier service with the artillery.The reference to T.F. in the family may be an earlier enlistment in to the T.F. at some point pre war or at the beginning of the war and then having been discharged 04/04/1916 would be during the period of conscription - the S.R. enlistment could be indicative of a man enlisting voluntarily rather than being conscripted when his age group were called up - this would include men who had served and been discharged since the outbreak of the war. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 23 November , 2013 Share Posted 23 November , 2013 The Special Reserve for the RGA that was started at the beginning of the war was completely different to that given in the tables above and was started expressly for ex soldiers. See Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 23 November , 2013 Share Posted 23 November , 2013 So, they created a new grouping within their S.R. recruited from time expired regulars. Interesting - I had wondered what the RGA did to bring up the numbers with such a low level of S.R. men pre war. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinph Posted 12 August , 2014 Share Posted 12 August , 2014 What a small world it is Kevin. My grandfather was S/R 275001 BSM Ernest Crowhurst MM RGM. He joined the Royal Artillery in 1897,served in Gibraltar and Malta. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 13 August , 2014 Share Posted 13 August , 2014 My g/father was attested on 3 October 1914 into the RGA special reserve after completing 25 years of service to 1910. Whether he was a reservist after 1910 I cannot ascertain from his service documents. He was originally given the number 3394 which became 278394 when service numbers were realigned. Looking at the post of Colinph could I also assume that his grandfather was originally no 1 in the S/R. ? Prewar my g/father served mainly in UK but had a stint in Gibraltar from 1902-05. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 13 August , 2014 Share Posted 13 August , 2014 What a small world it is Kevin. My grandfather was S/R 275001 BSM Ernest Crowhurst MM RGM. He joined the Royal Artillery in 1897,served in Gibraltar and Malta. Colin Whether he was a reservist after 1910 I cannot ascertain from his service documents. could I also assume that his grandfather was originally no 1 in the S/R. ? Colin, I see also he served with 81 Coy pre war. Do you have early and later photos of him? David, No David, your relative would have been time expired. BSM Crowhurst's number was 1. Easy to remember for over two years at least. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 13 August , 2014 Share Posted 13 August , 2014 Kevin, Looking at his service documents it would seem that he signed a new attestation form on being recalled to the colours. Yes certainly, he was time expired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinph Posted 13 August , 2014 Share Posted 13 August , 2014 Kevin, I do have a photograph of my grandfather in Gibraltar, March 1902 but blowed if I know how to attach it. His detachment won a competition. Top of photograph it reads. Q.F. 12 Pr. GUN DETACHMENT. No. 81 Company, ( Late 20 E.D. ) R.G.A. The men in the detachment were, Gr. Roberts, Gr. Wall D, Gr. Moody. Br. Crowhurst. Br. Snoad. Br Millen. Bottom of photograph it reads. At Competitive Practice from Buena Vista Battery, Gibraltar, in March 1902, this Detachment fired 22 rounds from one gun in two minutes, and obtained 12 direct hits. Colin EDIT - Just found out how to attach a photo, so here's the photo referred to above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinph Posted 14 August , 2014 Share Posted 14 August , 2014 Ernest Crowhurst,s original number when he joined the R.A. in 1897 was 20552. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 15 August , 2014 Share Posted 15 August , 2014 What a lovely photo to have. Wonder how many other members of the detachment served during the war. I suppose you have researched 15th Siege Battery that your grandfather served with. If not a trip to Kew may be worth while. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinph Posted 15 August , 2014 Share Posted 15 August , 2014 Thanks Kevin. It is a wonderful photograph to have. We must make a special effort to go to Kew. Not easy to find information for the 15th on the net. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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