NZ Patches

[roger]

Can anyone tell me which NZ Army unit wore a red diamond patch on their uniform sleeve(s).

Thanks in advance,

Roger.

[Mike_H]

Roger,

The following NZ units used a red diamond:

2nd Aukland Bn - red diamond on a blue square

NZ Cyclist Bn - red diamond superimposed on a white diamond

3rd (Reserve) Battalion (Aukland-Wellington) - a red diamond

2nd Brigade NZ Field Artillery - a red diamond on a blue circle.

All of the above were worn on the sleeves.

The Infantry units of the Home Service Branch i.e. serving in NZ wore a red dimond on the pagri of the bush hat.

Mike

[roger]

Cheers Mike. What unit do you think this figure represents?

[DrB]

Hey Roger, I will S.W.A.G. that one....2nd Aukland, red diamond on a blue rectangle but faded from use and/or washing.

Nicely done figure as well.....54mm?

DrB

[roger]

Thanks, I thought 2nd Aukland too but thought it a good idea to have it confirmed.

That isn't one of the figures I've painted. I wish mine were as good as that!

It is a 75mm "Fusilier" figure painted by a chap called Kreston Peckham. His website can be found here,

http://www.angelfire.com/wi3/kbpeckham/index.html

He has some really nice Great War figures in the gallery section. I've just ordered the figure today. An explanation of which unit it represents will be in the painting guide but now I know I can begin some research into the unit now.

Thank you,

Roger.

[DrB]

Well Roger....There is something to be said for 54mm's. You can "get away" from the tinie-tiny detail anyway. With the 75's and larger, ya gotta do the shoes and "lemon squeezer" with great detail. Then there will always be the critic, self appointed usually, that doesn't like it. Guess that is why I paint for myself after all the years of competition. Like Ricky Nelson said before he died "Ya gotta please yourself."

DrB

[roger]

Your right DrB, I aspire to paint figures to that standard. Mine go in the cabinet in the dining room and are painted and displayed for my pleasure. The only public viewing they get are here on this forum. More for the subject matter than the standard of painting

Roger.

[Guest Chip Minx]

All,

Just a question after having looked at the figure. Would the NZ troops have worn the "lemon squeezer" at the front? Were NZ troops ever in the line on the Western front before the general issue of trench helmets?

Thanks,

Chip

[Captain Dave]

I was thinking that myself in regards to the Lemon Squeezer.

This figure represents a soldier of the 2nd Auckland Regiment, 2 Brigade, 1 NZEF. Most likely circa 1917 - 18. The LS was not adopted formally by NZ tps until after 1917. There are lovely photos of them mobilizing in 1914 wearing combinations of the flat caps and Australian style slouch hats in the same companys.

The LS would never have been worn in the trenches, mostly it was a behind the lines thing, you see Company photographs where they must have had them stuck in their packs or something and they are crushed beyond shape and form.

Lastly the NZ tps reached the WF in 1916, and were issued with the tin hats and the new SMLEs before moving up to the front line. Prior to this they had used the Long Toms in Egypt and Gallipoli and only the Wellington Regiment had the Lemon Squeezer hat.

[Guest bonza]

Have been told that lemon Squeezer evolved thro' following process

ooRoo

[Robert Dunlop]

Lastly the NZ tps reached the WF in 1916, and were issued with the tin hats and the new SMLEs before moving up to the front line.

The New Zealand Division first went into the line near Armentieres. Did they have tin hats then? I am travelling at the moment so don't have the divisional history to hand. The photograph of my Grandfather, taken in 1915 before he left NZ, shows him wearing the LS (Auckland Regiment).

Robert

[Captain Dave]

The photograph of my Grandfather, taken in 1915 before he left NZ, shows him wearing the LS (Auckland Regiment).

If you get the opportunity to scan and post this photo on your return I would be very interested to see it. I trust he may have been pre war, 3rd Auckland (Countess of Ranfurley's Own) Rifles and then entitled to wear the embellishments etc.

From what I have seen, most reinforcements wore reinforcement badges training in NZ and the tp ships until posted to their Regiments in theatre. I have seen pictures of them wearing Lemon Squeezers, Mounted Rifles style hat (slouch hats) and flat caps, depending on what was available and who was in charge. The LS was formally adopted for all tps, less Mounted Rifles in 1917, although the Wellington Regiment were wearing it before WW1.

We were a bit of a hodge podge.

I have never seen a reference to NZ tps in France wearing LS or soft tops in the front line. They were posted in just after the Somme commenced, so the war economy was in full swing and there were adequate numbers of helmets to be issued.

[Guest bonza]

I have never seen a reference to NZ tps in France wearing LS or soft tops in the front line. They were posted in just after the Somme commenced, so the war economy was in full swing and there were adequate numbers of helmets to be issued.

Our mob still liked to wear the slouch hat weneva.

The dummy tank photo was taken on 17 September 1918, whilst the tanks were being positioned for the attack on the Hindenberg Outpost line near Le Verguier.

The sentry below was on guard at Battalion Headquarters just before the Germans attacked the position in March 1918 offensive.

There are numerous AWM pics of troops marching out of the lines, wearing their slouch hats, with the tin helmets on their backs or hung thro the shoulder straps.

Some people have 'discredited' a picture purporting to be the death dive of the Red Baron on the basis that the onlooking troops were wearing 'soft hats' & would therefore be well behind the lines in 1918.

Would appreciate some-one putting a $ value on the Lucas Signalling Lamp in this photo. I had one for many many years & gave it away last year.

ooRoo

Pat

[Robert Dunlop]

Sadly, I do not have access to his photo. A member of the family took all his photographs and no-one has been allowed access since.

The New Zealand Division was in line by 16th May 1916. There is one photo in the History of General Godley addressing the troops, all of whom are wearing LSs. But it is obviously not the front line and there is no date.

Robert

[Captain Dave]

I have a copy of the Div History and I know the photo you are refering to. In it he is inspecting a Coy of the Otago Regiment. The photo has been 'touched up', but later reappears in a later book about Passhendale where the picture is reproduced much clearer. The looks of abject disdain from some of the troops is commented on by the author.

Unfortionatly I don't have access to a scanner, other wise I could post some pictures of NZ tps that look very Australian or English in their headgear.

It's always a hassle finding out what the family has done with things!