vickers 1 pr Mk 3 HE 37-69R in nieppe forest

[Frank Rabbets]

I have a deactivated and complete shell and case from a Vickers one pound gun as described in the title. It has a 131 R+S fuse. It has been engraved " NIEPPE FOREST MAY-JUNE 1918 ". I wonder if anyone can tell me what it was used against. From what I have uncovered on the internet the 131 R+S fuse was used against the Zeppelins . Is this correct ? The nose of the shell is blunt with a recess at the base of which is an aluminium domed cap. The brass surround is drilled radially with 6 holes.

Thanks

Frank

[egbert]

Maybe against my Grandfather. Read my signature

[TonyE]

The no.131 fuze was designed to detonate against airship skins, it was not used in a ground role. Presumably your round is the short cased Mark III?

I wil scan and post a drawing of the gun tomorrow if nobody beats me to it.

Regards

TonyE

[Frank Rabbets]

Hi Tony

Yes mine is the short one. Do you know what they were using these for in the Nieppe Forest. Were airships used in 1918 in that campaign? I wonder if many like mine survive? In fact I have another one but cannot read the inscription.

Thanks

Frank

[TonyE]

Hi

I have absolutely no idea what they might have been doing in the forest, I am afraid my specialism is the munitions, not the campaigns!

The 1 Pr Mark III round is not that common, but is by no means rare. They turn up reasonably frequently in collections.

The No.131 fuze is also found on 2 prs as well.

Regards

TonyE

[Frank Rabbets]

Hi Tony

I'm having an academic discussion with a friend re "131 Anti Zeppelin Fuse". Do you know where the proof is that this 131 fuse was just designed for Zeppelins? Was it also used for other targets?

Thanks

Frank

[centurion]

According to R Wallace Clarke in British Aircraft Armament Vol 2 1994 it was originally intended for Home Defence which in effect meant anti Zeppelin but this doesn't mean that this was all it was used for. AFAIK 51 squadron who flew the very few FE2bs so armed in the UK never fired it in anger against a Zeppelin. Given that the alternative round for the gun was AP it would seem inevitable that Nos 100 and 102 squadrons who used the gun for night attacks on German supply trains would have fired explosive rounds against ground targets

[TonyE]

I cannot offer any proof immediately, as I would have to trawl through the Ordnance Board Proceedings to find the relevant Minutes for the 131 fuze, but as Centurion rightly says, it was designed for Home Defence use and so was therefore primarily anti-Zeppelin. It was an extra sensitive fuze due to the pressure plate and designed to detonate on fabric.

I was unaware of the use of the 1 Pr Mark III by 100 and 102 squadrons in the ground attack role, so yes, it may well have had other uses later in the war.

Meanwhile, here is a page from the December 1917 Woolwich fuze manual showing the Mark IV version of the fuze.

Incidentally, the "37-69R" in your topic title is just the metric dimensions of the cartridge case (37x69R) and nothing to do with the shell or fuze.

Regards

TonyE

[Frank Rabbets]

Hi Tony

Thanks for the info and the amazing drawing. I took mine apart in 1970 when I found them in a derelict pub. I remember working out the centrifugal safety/arming mechanism but shall take one apart again to see if all the bits are there. Looks like once it is armed after having been fired it won't disarm. So I guess that's why you should not play with any you find lying around after a battle.

Thanks very much again.

Frank

[centurion]

A similar diagram is included in the book I have quoted but shown in comparison with the AP round. !00 and 102 went after supply trains at night as the glare from the fire box made the engine very visible from the air . An AP round fired against the boiler would certainly stop the train in its tracks (no pun intended) but would probably leave the rest of the train intact and the engine possibly repairable. An explosive round fired into a steamed up boiler would produce a spectacular explosion Much like one fired into a hydrogen cell.

[TonyE]

Hi Tony

Thanks for the info and the amazing drawing. I took mine apart in 1970 when I found them in a derelict pub. I remember working out the centrifugal safety/arming mechanism but shall take one apart again to see if all the bits are there. Looks like once it is armed after having been fired it won't disarm. So I guess that's why you should not play with any you find lying around after a battle.

Thanks very much again.

Frank

Quite right.

I cannot think of any fired fuze that can be disarmed. Once the various detentes, centrifugal bolts, rotors and ball bearings (depending on the fuze type) have moved to their armed positions it is not possible to return them to a "safe" state.

Regards

TonyE