War picture October 1918

[PFF]

war Picture released October 1918

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045211/1918-10-01/ed-1/seq-4/#date1=10%2F01%2F1918&index=3&date2=10%2F02%2F1918&searchType=advanced&language=&sequence=0&words=&proxdistance=5&state=Pennsylvania&rows=20&ortext=&proxtext=&phrasetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

ANy Idea of Unit or location?

[stevem49]

MGC in France or Belgium

[Lancashire Fusilier]

war Picture released October 1918

ANy Idea of Unit or location?

PFF,

Here is the photograph, captioned as follows :-

Machine Gunners of the 11th Battalion the Leicester Regiment, 6th Division, in the captured German second line at Cambrai, November 20, 1917, which coincidentally was photographed 96 years ago today.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[PFF]

Thanks for ID!

Why would they wait a year to release it?

What unit was the Leicester Regiment opposing? Apparently a MG Unit?

Does the Unit History tell of casualites of the Leicesters? Where was it taken?

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Thanks for ID!

Why would they wait a year to release it?

PFF,

The very good reason for the delay in publication, was War Department censorship. Obviously, the Germans also read the British newspapers and we would not have wanted to tell them that the 11th Battalion the Leicester Regiment, 6th Division, were sitting in their second line trenches at Cambrai, on November 20, 1917.

Once that information was of absolutely no use whatsoever to the enemy, it would then have been released for publication.

Regards,

LF

[RaySearching]

The full picture can be seen on this website

Link to photo

Link to Website

Leicester Regiment ?

Canadian’s in the trenches
near Ypres Belgium (Source of photo – RCMP Veterans’ Association – Vancouver Division’s Photo Collection)

Regards Ray

Edit Scroll down on website to see photo with caption

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The full picture can be seen on this website

Leicester Regiment ?

Canadian’s in the trenches

near Ypres Belgium (Source of photo – RCMP Veterans’ Association – Vancouver Division’s Photo Collection)

Regards Ray

Ray,

I have seen this photograph with multiple captions claiming to show British, American and or Canadian troops.

Attached is a version of this photograph taken from an American book in my Collection " History's Greatest War " by S.J. Duncan-Clark, published in 1919.

On page 296 of this book in the Chapter on ' The Marines ', the photo is captioned " Actual Photo of American Machine Gun Troops Operating from German Second Line in Great Cautigny Advance ".

I suppose it depends on which flag you are waving, British, American or Canadian.

Needless to say, one of the captions is correct.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Stoppage Drill]

Go back to the link - the Philadelphia newspaper. The picture is credited as a British Official photo, and the caption refers to "Tommies" being portrayed.

[RaySearching]

LF

A poignant photo nevertheless

regardless of which regiment or nationalities are depicted

regards Ray

[Khaki]

I am not going to draw any conclusion, but take a look (under magnification) at the bare headed soldier, in particular his belt, it almost looks a bit like a US mills infantry belt, you can see perhaps one or more individual ammo pouches on his right side, (maybe???)

khaki

[Lancashire Fusilier]

LF

A poignant photo nevertheless

regardless of which regiment or nationalities are depicted

regards Ray

Ray,

I agree, all brave men whoever they were.

Regards,

LF

[RaySearching]

The full photo

regards Ray

[Stoppage Drill]

Farthest soldier facing camera has chevrons right way up (British way) and shoulder titles. Bareheaded soldier wears Brit leather jerkin ? Brit 1908 large pack on parados ?

[Khaki]

Good point, well spotted, as an aside, it doesn't look much of a second line German trench.

khaki

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Just for the record, here is the caption to that American newspaper photo linked in post # 1 :-

" After capturing the German defenses, the Tommies have mounted their machine guns and settled down for a rest while awaiting further orders "

LF

[Guest]

The IWM has it as the 11th Battalion Leicestershire Regiment

Is that where you found it LF?

Mike

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The IWM has it as the 11th Battalion Leicestershire Regiment

Is that where you found it LF?

Mike

Mike,

No not from IWM, I had originally copied it from another book on WW1 and put the copy inside my old American book to show both versions of the photo, it is interesting that the IWM also caption it as the Leicestershire Regiment at Cambrai.

Regards,

LF

[SFayers]

I'm probably showing my ignorance, but would an infantry battalion be armed with Vickers machine guns by November 1917? I understood that infantry battalion machine gun sections were formed into their respective infantry brigade Machine Gun Company during 1916 and the men shortly thereafter transferred to the MGC?

All the best

Steve

[Adam Llewellyn]

The 11th Leicesters were a Pioneer Battalion, would they have Vickers machine guns?

The battalion diary for November 1917 is missing I'm afraid.

Regards.

Llew.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

it almost looks a bit like a US mills infantry belt, you can see perhaps one or more individual ammo pouches on his right side, (maybe???)

khaki

khaki,

Is this the type of WW1 U.S. Mills ammo belt you are referring to ?

Regards,

LF

[Andrew Upton]

The full photo

...

regards Ray

As pointed out elsewhere, for some reason this picture is almost always reproduced back-to-front - it should be as below:

http://postimg.org/image/4dtuf9uqf/

[Lancashire Fusilier]

As pointed out elsewhere, for some reason this picture is almost always reproduced back-to-front - it should be as below:

Andrew,

Out of interest, and with the IWM and the other publications I have seen dating back to 1918/19 all showing the photograph with the machine guns facing right, who has verified that the correct version of this photograph should be the other way around with the guns facing to the left ?

Regards,

LF

Update -

Andrew,

Can see it now, Stoppage Drill kindly pointed out that the left side of the Vickers ( fusee spring side ) is shown on the right in the other photos, whereas in your posted version, the left side of the Vickers is correctly shown on the left.

Regards,

LF

[Stoppage Drill]

Andrew,

Out of interest, and with the IWM and the other publications I have seen dating back to 1918/19 all showing the photograph with the machine guns facing right, who has verified that the correct version of this photograph should be the other way around with the guns facing to the left ?

Regards,

LF

With respect, very easy really: the fuse spring/ chain cover on the guns is the giveaway, as are the partly fired belts.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

With respect, very easy really: the fuse spring/ chain cover on the guns is the giveaway, as are the partly fired belts.

Stoppage Drill,

Many thanks for pointing that out, sometimes it is all in the detail.

Attached photos show left and right side views of the Vickers, with the left side ( fusee spring side ) Vickers aimed left, and the right side of the Vickers, gun aimed to the right

Regards,

LF

[Khaki]

khaki,

Is this the type of WW1 U.S. Mills ammo belt you are referring to ?

Regards,

LF

Hello LF

Yes that's what I meant, but I realize that it is unlikely, it could be anything including a .455 pistol ammo pouch patt., 08 with brass hooks, which I would expect machine gunner to have.

regards

khaki