calibre792x57.y Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 Not too long ago there was a sad story from a member who lost a kS 98 in the mail. Here is mine. Originally introduced in 1901 for the Independent Machine Gun Companies the bulk of them were manufactured between 1910 - 1914 and issued to Airship Companies, Telegraph Troops, and Imperial Colonial Troops. This one is marked KS xxxx on the crossguard and this serial number is repeated on the reverse of the scabbard. This marking indicates that it was issued to German Colonial Troops in South West Africa. Unlike other German possessions in Africa the dry climate helped to preserve the pressed leather grips and they are rarely found with replacement grips. The colony surrendered on 9th July 1915 and these bayonets were popular souvenirs with the South Africans who took over. They were also often worn as a sidearm by officers who would normally have otherwise worn a sword as a mark of rank until their carriage was banned in 1915. They are quite rare today. P.S. S<S, I got fed up with grenades - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 Lovely bayonet SW, thats a real beauty. They certainly are very aesthetically pleasing. As you say they appear to be pretty hard to find these days, so you've done very well to dig that one up. The only one I've seen (other than the one that you have posted) had wooden grips - presumably these would have been replacements? Also - nice work on moving from grenades to bayonets; a sage decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 20 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2013 There are variations which were made for private purchase, but the issue weapons originally had pressed leather grips, like a British 19th Century sword bayonet. In the climate of the African colonies these often rotted and the grips would be replaced by wood scales, or sometimes antler for dress use. Nambibia had a hot dry climate so the leather grips survived. I found this picture on the forum of two German officers. Behind the left hand one can be seen his kS 98 hanging up, c/w sword knot. (With apologies to the original author of the post) - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 P.S. S<S, I got fed up with grenades - SW Ha ha, yes as you do.! Once again an interesting post of a very nice looking bayonet. You have a superb collection - good stuff. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 Indeed, a very nice bayonet! Just out of interest SW, what is the maker's mark? Looks like a Crown Erfurt? Also, what is the number? The lowest I have seen of the four number type mark is KS 2183 and the highest is KS 8452, both on (Erfurt-made) triple-rivet examples like yours. Trajan PS: yes, I know, a bit late to add a comment but I have a lot of catching up to do! Edited to correct spelling, etc., and to add: SW, do you know this web-site? http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/ The 'Bayonets of the South West African Schutztruppe' section has a nice selection of KS bayonets, including one lower and one higher marking that I had missed of my records for some reason, a K.S. 1516 and a K.S. 11067! That's a lot of bayonets!!! And they all seem to be ERFURT-made, except for some HORSTER's with wooden handle. The page also contains a photograph of the missing KS 98 you referred to in the OP, it is numbered KS 2232. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 SW, do you know this web-site? http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/ The 'Bayonets of the South West African Schutztruppe' section has a nice selection of KS and other bayonets, including one lower and one higher marking that I had missed of my records for some reason, a K.S. 1516 and a K.S. 11067! That's a lot of bayonets!!! It also contains a photograph of the missing KS 98 you referred to in the OP, it is numbered KS 2232. Whoops! Screwed up there! Still re-learning the ins-and-outs of how to post, re-post, edit, etc...!!! Apologies all round! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 Another example here: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30000700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 Another example here: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30000700 Thanks Jscott. I don't know an awful lot about these as I only made notes (which I used for the earlier post) to go with my single example, which is a HORSTER sawback, with chequered bakelite grips with screw-grips - I assume these grips are Weimar or later period replacements for the original wooden ones. No unit markings on this, though, so I don't know if this was an African or European service bayonet... And never having yet found a marked African one I never bothered to read any further or update my notes...Of course what I should have done was check on Carter before posting - a bad (recurring!) mistake of mine to try and post things when the kids are in and out of my desk space getting ready for school! Too much haste...etc., etc..! Anyway, his vol 2 pp.140-145, with 142-143 on the KS ones. He has recorded 28 examples, making this (for him) the largest group of these marked African service bayonets. These are all ERFURT products, with dates between 1902 and 1913, and he lists details for these, all with the chequered leather grips with three rivets, except one (1913) with composition grips held by screwbolts. Numbers go from KS 601 to KS 11196(!). I had thought that all these KS marked ones were for SW Africa alone, but it appears not so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 27 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2014 Certainly the specialist site on German Colonial troops has it that K.S. prefixes are an indication of service in SW Africa. Having found a group of these does not necessarily make the assertion incorrect as this colony surrendered in July 1915 and handed over their weapons to the occupying troops. The bayonets were apparently popular souvenirs so one should expect a quite high survival rate in this group. If KS stands for Kaiserliche Schutztruppen I would have expected all the 'colonial' bayonets to carry this rather than a 'colony' mark. Just for consideration! Yep, mine like most is an Erfurt bayonet and the Inspection mark is for 1910. I think that the kS scabbard is distinguishable from that for the S.84/98 without comparison of it's slightly narrower body as they all seem to have an inspection mark stamped on the frog stud. I have one which actually contains a near mint S.84/98 dated 1916. A 'double trademark' one: F. Herder and Walter & Co. The scabbard reverse is numbered simply '358'. It is in the same condition as the bayonet. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 Certainly the specialist site on German Colonial troops has it that K.S. prefixes are an indication of service in SW Africa. ... If KS stands for Kaiserliche Schutztruppen I would have expected all the 'colonial' bayonets to carry this rather than a 'colony' mark. Just for consideration! ... - SW Yes, the site does basically state that they are all for SW Africa, but Carter is not so specific. He notes that all colonial toops were Kaiserliche Schutztruppen; then reports the Cameroon issued bayonets, prefixed either 'S.K.' or 'Sch.K'; then lists the East Africa ones, prefixed 'Sch.D.O.A.'; and then goes straight into the 'K.S.' series - without precisely stating that they are South-West Africa, but noting that some of them MIGHT have stayed at headquarters in Berlin (hence the preserved leather grips!). BUT, the Germans also had colonies in the Pacific (German New Guinea and German Samoa), as well as two concessions in China, which would presumably also have units of Kaiserliche Schutztruppen, which is why I wonder if he was uncertain himself about all the 'K.S.' ones being South-West Africa. I can see a possible reason for a possible and assumed hesitancy on his part. As I noted earlier, he lists the details for the 28 of the 'K.S.' but their numbers do not make a nice consecutive series with the years they were made. Now, the 'Sch.D.O.A.' bayonets have a nice series of numbers that run in a sequence that does broadly correspond to the sequence of years in which they were made. So the earliest year-marked 'Sch.D.O.A.' bayonet in Carter is W/09, numbered 338, but then comes a W/10 numbered 263, but that is followed by a series of 11 in which the bayonet numbers rise with the years - W/10 with 404, to W/14, with 1531. To those we can add one Carter did not list, a W/07, marked 208. One conclusion would be that the KS unit in East Africa only started numbering the bayonets in1910... Now to the 'K.S.' bayonets... Carter's earliest of the 28 is a W/02, numbered K.S.10037; the next three are all W/04, and numbered 8010, 10023, and 10036. But then comes a run of W/06 bayonets with 1750, 8217, and 8588. And to cap it all there is a W/09 numbered 601 and a W/10 numbered 874! One possible explanation might be something similar to what I have intepreted from the pattern above, that none of them were actually numbered in sequence before - whenever? (1911 might be the year as there is a W/11 with 1387) - and the numbers were assigned to the bayonets as they turned up at the armourers. Or, perhaps some of these 'K.S.' marked bayonets might be issues in a numbered series for Kaiserliche Schutztruppen in the other colonies...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 28 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 28 February , 2014 It would be usual for an armourer to mark the bayonets as they came to hand. Looking at the K.S. examples shown on the German Colonials site it seems that we have two different sets of number punches being used in the main. One where the actual serial is stamped with digits about half the height of the letter stamps, and another where the digits are rather taller, about two-thirds the height of the letters. Mine is in the first group. As for Carter's volumes it is well to remember that he was a ground breaker and while his work is still of great value it is now based on information which is twenty-five years old old. The information on the web site is likely to be more up to date. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 February , 2014 Share Posted 28 February , 2014 Yes, quite a mixture in the dies that were used! I'll see if I can get some more photographs up for you. And yes, of course the armourers most likely stamped (numbered) these bayonets as they came to hand. In which case, assuming these 'K.S.' ones are all South-West African issues, then on the basis of the list provided by Carter, it looks like these first began to be stamped / numbered in 1910/1911, same as in East Africa. In which case might we infer that that same period was when the Kaiserliche Schutztruppen began to be supplied with the Gew. 98? Now, here's another oddity... According to Wiki****, the Schutztruppe in South-West Africa "had a total strength of 91 officers, 22 physicians, 9 veterinarians, 59 civilian administrators, ammunition technicians, 342 NCOs and 1,444 German other ranks for a total of 1,967 personnel", giving the source for this as Haupt, Werner. Deutschlands Schutzgebiete in Übersee 1884–1918, Friedberg: Podzun-Pallas Verlag (1984), ISBN 3-7909-0204-7, p. 56... Which makes me wonder why there is a bayonet marked K.S. 11196! That aside, it still seems rather odd to me that it was only the Kaiserliche Schutztruppen in South-West Africa that received bayonets with the 'K.S.' mark when in theory, all of these colonial forces belonged to the same formation! Cheers for now, Trajan PS: I forgot to mention that Carter does report a W/00 S 98 aA mS which is marked 'K.S. 539', all the other bayonet with the 'K.S.' marking known to him being the KS 98. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 February , 2014 Share Posted 28 February , 2014 Well, having nothing better to do than prepare my mythology(!) class for Monday, I set down to looking at those K.S. numbers and dates. I managed to get 49 examples from books and the web, but no coherent pattern emerged when I listed them by serial number / year... Lowest and highest numbers on the KS 98 bayonets remain as in Carter, K.S. 601 on a W/09, and 11196 on a W/10...There is a sort of run from a W/10 with 1066, to a W/11 with 1387, with a few older ones popping up, before another sequence starting with a W/12 with 2183 to a W/12 with 2913, the next W/12 being 3556... But look what comes between that 2913 and 3556... A W/14 with 3175... And moving on from that there is a W/06 (not in Carter) with 8652. I confess bewilderment! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 28 February , 2014 Share Posted 28 February , 2014 Nice photo which may be of interest HERE ... Enjoy.!! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 March , 2014 Share Posted 1 March , 2014 Thanks! Great moustache! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now