Bedfordshire Regt/RAMC/Rifle Brigade/Sussex- Grandfather & Great U

[Russ Platt]

Hello

I am trying to find any further information regarding my grand father Albert Alfred Platt (born 1896) and his brother Percy George Platt (born 1898).

Steve Fuller has been very helpful but there are some oddities regarding regimental numbers and also their service records are not listed.

Albert Platt

His Service Record is missing from Ancestry. I understand that he sailed from England to Egypt via Malta. From there the regiment proceeded to Gallipoli but he remained in Egypt as part of the reserve.

His regimental numbers from his record card which shows him arriving in Egypt on 6/8/15 were:

Bedforshire 5/Bn 3571

RAMC regimental number 536585

Rifle Brigade 212000

Does anyone know when or where the RAMC or Rifle Brigade numbers were issued and therefore from the movements of these units his likely service record?

Percy Platt

I think that Percy also served in the Bedfordshire Regiment.

His regimental numbers from his (likely) record card are:

Bedfordshire no. 4324.

Sussex Rgt. G/14854

The Territorials were renumbered in 1917. His likely number became 200540 or 200541. Does anyone know his new number?

Steve felt that the Sussex Regt number was more likely to have been issued as early as 1914 which would not fit with his "early" Bedfordshire number. Any information on this please?

Grateful for all information.

Russ

[stiletto_33853]

Russ,

The Rifle Brigade number you have given (212000) was issued to Herbert Charles Pink, whose service was with the 4th Hampshire Regiment as 2330 until June 197 when he transferred to the 21st RB, and, whose service was in India, are you sure of the number??

Andy

[Russ Platt]

Andy

Thank you for this. My first reply!

In answer to your question - please see attached. I have his medal card with the number 212000. Good clear writing.

Thoughts?

Kind regards

Russ

[johnboy]

I see his medals are listed as serving RAMC.

[Phil Evans]

The RAMC number is in the batch allocated to 5th London Field Ambulance following the early 1917 renumbering.

The implication is that his Bedfordshire's service was also with the Territorials.

Phil

[bedfordyeoman]

Details of 21 RB from the Long Long Trail:

18th (London); 19th (Western), 20th (Northern), 21st (Midland), 22nd (Wessex & Welsh), 23rd (North Western) and 24th (Home Counties) Battalions
Formed in accordance with an Army Council Instruction on 29 November 1915. The Bns were made up of supernumerary TF Companies, formed from National Reservists who were used for guarding vulnerable points in Great Britain. The Bns were posted for Garrison duty overseas in 1916. The 18th, 23rd and 24th went to India; 19th and 20th to Egypt. The 21st went to India via Egypt, and the 22nd Salonika via Egypt. The latter was attached to the 228th Brigade in 28th Division.

Looks like territorials who had already served in a theatre of war also joined - there are several Beds territorials in addition to Platt. Garrison duty was reserved for those who, for one reason or another, were not suitable for front line duty.

Best

David

[stiletto_33853]

Hi David,

There is a whole block in the 21st RB of the Bedfords, this number is outside of that block though close.

Andy

[Russ Platt]

Thanks guys

I understand that Albert was in the Territorials - 5th battalion of the Bedfordshires. What are we saying regrding the Rfile Brigade number though? Is 212000 wrong?

Russ

[Phil Evans]

Russ,

I would hazard a guess that Percy was transferred to the Royal Sussex Regiment, probably the 13th Battalion, around September 1916.

The medal roll would confirm his movements, but probably not the date.

Phil

[Russ Platt]

Phil

I think that this is Percy's medal card.

Russ

[Phil Evans]

The relevant medal roll at Kew is WO 329/1249.

Unfortunately, the only one I have is WO 329/1251.

Phil

[Russ Platt]

Dear Phil

Thanks for this. Sounds like a trip to Kew.

Dear all

Percy Platt

Looking back at the original questions it seems that we might have a solution to the Percy questions via Kew. If anyone has any further info though then I would be pleased to hear.

Albert Platt

Still not sure that we have resolved how or when he transferred to the RAMC or the Rifle Brigade. In addition we seem to have the mystery of his duplicated Rifle Brigade number. Again, all input most welcome.

Many thanks

Russ

[Russ Platt]

Dear all,

The plot thickens. I have been able to check Albert's medals.

I have:

The 1914 Star

British War Medal

Victory Media

All three medals are engraved with 3571 Pte A.A. PLATT BEDF.R. Picture below.

Clearly, this contradicts his medal card - see above. That appears to show that his medals would be issued with his christian name and under the RAMC. Perhaps of more significance is that we have a 1914 Star. Interesting because we had thought that he served only in the Eastern Med and did not go overseas until 1915. Might he have misplaced his medals and they have been (incorrectly) reissued or just a cock-up in admin?

Thoughts?

I have also located a third son to have served, Arthur Platt. The great news is that his service record exists. My first! Royal Regiment of Artillery (just like my Dad but that would be the next time around). Positive ID as he listed his father as next of kin. Also rather proud that the 3 brothers served in the First war and that Albert had 3 sons serve in the Second. All home safe.

Incidentally, my Uncle who served on the Atlantic and Russian convoys in WW2 still feels very strongly that the WW2 medals should have been engraved. I think that he regards them as worthless and rather insulting in contrast to the engraved medals awarded to his Dad.

Kind regards

Russ

[SteveE]

All three medals are engraved with 3571 Pte A.A. PLATT BEDF.R.

Clearly, this contradicts his medal card - see above. That appears to show that his medals would be issued with his christian name and under the RAMC. Perhaps of more significance is that we have a 1914 Star. Interesting because we had thought that he served only in the Eastern Med and did not go overseas until 1915. Might he have misplaced his medals and they have been (incorrectly) reissued or just a cock-up in admin?

Thoughts?

I'm not a medal collector/expert in any way, shape or form but I do have a couple of thoughts....

Firstly, the BWM & Victory Medal do not contradict the Medal Card. The medals would have been administered by his last unit, the R.A.M.C., but would be issued with the details with which they were earned, in this case his Bedfordshire Regiment details. His christian name wouldn't be impressed on the medals, only his initials & surname, regiment and his highest rank held whilst overseas so everything, I assume, appears to be correct with those two.

Secondly, I think the 1914 Star is renamed. Hopefully somebody will be able to confirm or deny but I was under the impression (forgive the pun) that Great War medals were impressed, this 1914 Star has been engraved. I think his 1914/1915 Star has been lost and a replacement 1914 Star put in its stead. As a Territorial solder he may well have enlisted in 1914 but didn't go overseas until 1915, in this case I favour the Medal Card detail over the medal.

As I said, just my thoughts....

Regards

Steve

[Russ Platt]

Thanks for this Steve.

I stand corrected on the issuing unit information.

The Star certainly looks engraved to me. I have checked a 1914-15 Star issued to another relative and that was impressed. Albert's BWM and Victory are impressed.

Russ

[Russ Platt]

Dear all

The Albert Platt vs Herbert Pink shared Rifle Brigade number mystery still stands. Does anyone have thoughts on how to resolve it?

Kind regards

Russ

[Russ Platt]

Hi guys

 

Back to the issue of the regimental number for Albert Platt / Herbert Pink

 

As above the records show Rifle Brigade 212000 for Albert Platt on both the medal index card (above) and also the roll - photo below.

 

I have also attached the record that shows Herbert Pink as 212000. The unit is shown as 21/Rifle Brigade - does this still contradict Alberts record?

 

Grateful for any further thoughts

 

Russ