Sergeant John Elder,Black Watch (TAs)4/5th Battalion,Carnoustie.

[gavelder]

Hello,Iam new to this forum and Iam currently bulding up my family tree before I get too old.Iam trying to get more information on one of my late uncles war service record.He went to the Great War as a sergeant in the Black Watch (TAs) Royal Highlanders 4/5th battalion,His number was 240260.he was killed on 27/09/1917,his body may be in Tyne Cot cemetery and I do know that his name is on the Tyne Cot memorial.He came from Carnoustie,Angus and he lived at 17,Park Avenue,Carnoustie.Iam hoping to go over and visit Tyne Cot next Spring and perhaps visit where so many men died and never came home.I know that it is a long shot but perhaps someone may be able to help.He was only 19 years of age when he died.

Kindest regards

Gavelder,

Peterhead,

Aberdeenshire

[AlanCurragh]

Gavelder - I moved your post to its own thread - hopefully you'll get more response here. Can you post your Uncle's name please?

Alan

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

The SDGW entry is here to save anyone time.

Tyne Cot memorial here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54229384@N04/9554167730/sizes/h/in/photostream/

The War Diary has not been digitised yet.

Son of James and Jane Elder, of 17, Park Avenue, Carnoustie, Forfarshire. Tyne Cot Memorial Panel 94 to 96.

Regards,

Graeme

[gavelder]

Hello,Iam new to this forum and Iam currently bulding up my family tree before I get too old.Iam trying to get more information on one of my late uncles war service record.He went to the Great War as a sergeant in the Black Watch (TAs) Royal Highlanders 4/5th battalion,His number was 240260.he was killed on 27/09/1917,his body may be in Tyne Cot cemetery and I do know that his name is on the Tyne Cot memorial.He came from Carnoustie,Angus and he lived at 17,Park Avenue,Carnoustie.Iam hoping to go over and visit Tyne Cot next Spring and perhaps visit where so many men died and never came home.I know that it is a long shot but perhaps someone may be able to help.

Kindest regards

Gavelder,

Peterhead,

Aberdeenshire

Many thanks for your kind reply.

Gavin

Hi

The SDGW entry is here to save anyone time.

Image1.jpg

Tyne Cot memorial here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54229384@N04/9554167730/sizes/h/in/photostream/

The War Diary has not been digitised yet.

Son of James and Jane Elder, of 17, Park Avenue, Carnoustie, Forfarshire. Tyne Cot Memorial Panel 94 to 96.

Regards,

Graeme

Many thanks for your reply and info it is greatly appreciated

Gavin

[Guest]

A History of the Black Watch by Major General A G Wauchope C.B.

" On the morning of September 26th the 118th Brigade attacked the ridge to the left of Tower Hamlets, the 4/5th being on the right of the 118th Brigade. The attack was not entirely successful; no definite advance was made, since the state of the ground made the maintenance of communications under heavy hostile artillery fire extremely difficult. The result of 36 hours' fighting was that the British line was pushed forward a little in some places, but it was found impossible to form a definite line on the position won. Once more the 4/5th lost heavily, 1 officer being killed, 4 wounded and 3 missing; 19 other ranks killed, 114 wounded and 95 missing-a total of 8 officers and 228 other ranks. Captain Plimpton, commanding A company, was the officer killed, and among those wounded was Major Rogers, RAMC. On relief on the night of the 27th September, the 4/5th went back to rest camp near Westhoutre....... "

Mike

[gavelder]

A History of the Black Watch by Major General A G Wauchope C.B.

" On the morning of September 26th the 118th Brigade attacked the ridge to the left of Tower Hamlets, the 4/5th being on the right of the 118th Brigade. The attack was not entirely successful; no definite advance was made, since the state of the ground made the maintenance of communications under heavy hostile artillery fire extremely difficult. The result of 36 hours' fighting was that the British line was pushed forward a little in some places, but it was found impossible to form a definite line on the position won. Once more the 4/5th lost heavily, 1 officer being killed, 4 wounded and 3 missing; 19 other ranks killed, 114 wounded and 95 missing-a total of 8 officers and 228 other ranks. Captain Plimpton, commanding A company, was the officer killed, and among those wounded was Major Rogers, RAMC. On relief on the night of the 27th September, the 4/5th went back to rest camp near Westhoutre....... "

Mike

Many thanks Mike.

Gavin

[keithmroberts]

Wasr diaries for many units will become available during January from the National Archives website.

Keith

His Medal Index card shows entry into a theatre of war on 1/11/1914

[Guest]

Thanks Keith, look forward to that.

Mike

[rolt968]

His Medal Index card shows entry into a theatre of war on 1/11/1914

4/5 Black Watch was created on 15 March 1916, by merging what remained of 4 (City of Dundee) Black Watch and 5 (Angus and Dundee) Black Watch (both Territorial battalions). John Elder went to France on 1/11/1914, which is the date when 1/5 (Angus and Dundee) Black Watch went to France. That would be the local battalion if he came from Carnoustie. His original number was 1716.

He must have been under age when he went to France in 1914.

Have you looked to see if there is anything in the back numbers of the local paper?

Roger.

[rolt968]

Could this be him:

"Carnoustie Highlander Missing

Mrs Elder, Miller Street, Carnoustie has been officially notified that her son Sergeant John Elder, Black Watch has been missing since 26^th September last.

Sergeant Elder went to the front in November 194 and has gone through some of the heaviest fighting of the war. He was wounded for the third time on the day he was reported missing. He has also been gassed.

Sergeant Elder is twenty years of age and was formerly employed in Messrs Winter’s boot and shoe works, Carnoustie."

Dundee Courier, Tuesday 13 November 1917. (There is also a picture.)

Roger.

[gavelder]

4/5 Black Watch was created on 15 March 1916, by merging what remained of 4 (City of Dundee) Black Watch and 5 (Angus and Dundee) Black Watch (both Territorial battalions). John Elder went to France on 1/11/1914, which is the date when 1/5 (Angus and Dundee) Black Watch went to France. That would be the local battalion if he came from Carnoustie. His original number was 1716.

He must have been under age when he went to France in 1914.

Have you looked to see if there is anything in the back numbers of the local paper?

Roger.

Roger,

Many thanks for your reply,yes he was under age when he went to war,my late father Edward Elder told me so but going thru life all family members were not allowed to say anything about our uncle John.In knowing where he died and having done some research I have decided to visit the Menin Gate and Tyne Cot next spring just to see the area where many boys and men died.

Once again thank you.

Gavin D Elder

[gavelder]

Could this be him:

"Carnoustie Highlander Missing

Mrs Elder, Miller Street, Carnoustie has been officially notified that her son Sergeant John Elder, Black Watch has been missing since 26^th September last.

Sergeant Elder went to the front in November 194 and has gone through some of the heaviest fighting of the war. He was wounded for the third time on the day he was reported missing. He has also been gassed.

Sergeant Elder is twenty years of age and was formerly employed in Messrs Winter’s boot and shoe works, Carnoustie."

Dundee Courier, Tuesday 13 November 1917. (There is also a picture.)

Roger.

Roger,

May the lord be kind to you,yes this is my Uncle John,perhaps you may be kind enough to tell me how I can view the above details.

Gavin.

[rolt968]

Hello Gavin,

I will send you a Private Message.

Roger.

[gavelder]

With the assistance I received from this site that led me to other forums throughout the Uk regarding my late Uncle John Elder I have been able to piece together a remarkable story for which Iam now going to bring it all together and perhaps publish it prior to the 100 year anniversary of the Great War,a war of which should never have happened.Many countries lost relatives for no reason at all.But in saying that why did my uncle along with many thousands of youngsters who put their own lives at risk for nothing.So strange that to enlist you had to be 19 years of age,why o why did they let my uncle go to war when he was only 15 or 16 years of age !

Anyway,many thanks to you guys for making my day,if I can help in any way with your forum,please let me know where I can send a donation.

Thanks again

Kindest Regards

Mr Gavin D Elder

Port of Peterhead,

Aberdeenshire,

[kenmorrison]

Gavin - just in case you were not aware.

Sgt. John Elder, Black Watch, is remembered on the Barry Parish War Memorial in Carnoustie.

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic1433-0-asc-0.html

Ken

[gavelder]

Gavin - just in case you were not aware.

Sgt. John Elder, Black Watch, is remembered on the Barry Parish War Memorial in Carnoustie.

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic1433-0-asc-0.html

Ken

Many thanks Ken