Ever come across this in burials in your research

[Guest]

That sounds an interesting story. Why was he buried in Exeter?

He was an American soldier who was killed in France, son a Mr Hooper from Exeter. This report in The Western News and Mercury Thursday November 10th 1921, I will type it out and post tomorrow at some point.

Mike

[old sparky]

I have anectdotal evidence (my wife's family) of the death from wounds of Pte G W Smith 1 Hants at Netley (27th August 1916). His parents were informed of his passing and they had to instruct a local undertaker to collect their son and arrange the burial in his home churchyard. He does not have a CWGC marker and is commemorated on his father's headstone.

Peter B

[ph0ebus]

Given I have a strong family connection to Exeter I look forward to reading your post tomorrow!

-Daniel

[Guest]

If anyone else has the time or inclination before tomorrow, it's on this page Click

Mike

[ph0ebus]

If anyone else has the time or inclination before tomorrow, it's on this page Click

Mike

And, a few pounds sterling? All I get is a page asking for schmoolah?

-Daniel

[chrisharley9]

I have anectdotal evidence (my wife's family) of the death from wounds of Pte G W Smith 1 Hants at Netley (27th August 1916). His parents were informed of his passing and they had to instruct a local undertaker to collect their son and arrange the burial in his home churchyard. He does not have a CWGC marker and is commemorated on his father's headstone.

Peter B

Peter

Can we take it that he is listed by CWGC?

Chris

[johnboy]

I have come across a few references to the fact that repatriation of soldiers bodies from France was banned mid 1915. I have not seen any official documentation. It should be some where.

Example from Porthcawl and the Great War.

The loss experienced at home was made worse as families had no corpse to grieve over, no funeral to arrange and no grave to visit.

Although some officers had sent further letters telling of the soldier’s resting place, some families were denied even that modicum of solace, as many of the fallen had no known grave. Their names would later appear on the Theipval Memorial on the Somme or The Menin Gate in Ypres. In 1915 the decision was taken to ban repatriation of bodies from the Theatres of War. The Imperial War Graves Commission took over the burials and families were allowed a personal inscription for a small fee. Quite a few families couldn’t afford this consideration.

[Guest]

Western Morning News - Thursday 10 November 1921

Brought from France-American soldier's funeral at Exeter. At the Higher Cemeterey, Exeter, yesterday, the funeral took place of the American soldier son of Mr Hooper, of Portland street, Exeter, who was killed in France, the body having been exhumed. On arrival from Paris, the body was conveyed to the Salvation Army Temple, where a short service was conducted by Commander J Stobbart, who also conducted the service at the graveside. Hymns to the accompaniment of the Salvation Army Band were sung, following which the cortège, headed by a firing party from Higher Barracks, under Lieut. E A Bullock, proceeded through the streets to the cemetery. The coffin, which rested on a gun carriage, was draped with the American flag. Three volleys were fired over the grave, and a bugler of the Devonshire Regiment sounded " Last Post. " The United States were represented by Mr Geo F Walsh, Eastleigh Aerodrome, Southampton.

Western Times - Thursday 10 November 1921

Killed while serving with the American Army-Funeral at Higher Cemetery. Hundreds of citizens of Exeter lined the streets of the City yesterday, and the Higher Cemetery was packed to overflowing, the occasion being the funeral of Mr Walter George Hooper, son of Mr Hooper, of 97 Portland street, Exeter, who when a member of the American Army, was killed in France. The ceremony was of a most impressive character. On arrival from Paris, the body was conveyed to the Salvation Army Temple, where a short service was conducted by Commander J Stobart. To the accompaniment of the Army Band, under Bandmaster Cox, the Hymns " Son of my soul " and " Rock of ages " were fervently sung. Staff-Capt Dalrymple read a portion of scripture. The service concluded, the cortège, headed by a firing party from the Devon Regiment under Lieut E A Bullock, proceeded through the streets to the Higher Cemetery. The coffinplaced on a gun carriage from Topsham Barracks, drawn by six horses, was covered with the American Flag. It was of polished oak with silver furniture, and the inscription on the breastplate read: " Walter George Hooper, died 5th July 1918, aged 21 years, 11 months. " The service at the graveside was conducted by Commander Stobart. Capt Dalrymple offered prayer, and the Salvation Army Band rendered Hymn tunes. Three volleys were fired by the party from the Higher Barracks, and a Bugler of the Devons sounded the " Last Post. " The family mourners were, Mr and Mrs Hooper (father and mother), Mr F L Hooper (brother) Miss D Hooper (sister), Miss Grimshaw, Messrs F Scribble, H Isherwood, R Spicer, L O Huxham, Harle, (Locomotive Superintendent, Exmouth junction), Mr and Mrs Howard, Mr and Mrs Kneel, Mrs Thorpe, Mr George F Walsh, Quartermaster Corps, United States Army, Eastleigh Aerodrome, Southampton, represented the United States. Floral tributes were sent by the family; Mr and Mrs Howard; Messrs Tribble, Spicer, Huxham, Isherwood and Miss Grimshaw. (friends)

Mike

[old sparky]

Peter

Can we take it that he is listed by CWGC?

Chris

Yes Chris. The photo on the CWGC entry is a general view of St Mary's Overton churchyard. Attached is a family photo of the recently restored headstone. There is a CWGC marker adjacent to RMLI Ansell so I am informed.

[ph0ebus]

Mike: I have quite a few family buried in Higher Cemetery, and visited there in 2000. I have a brochure for it and will see if your man is named in it, as quite a few people of note are.

-Daniel

[ph0ebus]

[ph0ebus]

So, your fellow dies not appear in the list per se, but it would seem he is probably mentioned on the memorial and probably is buried near the chapel, per the pamphlet. Keith Roberts went there at the beginning of this year so he might know more...

-Daniel

[Guest]

Thanks for posting Daniel. Interesting.

Mike

[ph0ebus]

I hope it's of help and/or interest!

-Daniel

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

My wife's great uncle Otto Ernst, 165th U.S. Infantry, killed 28 July 1918 near the Our river. His boy was recovered several days afterward and. Buried in the local U.S. cemetery. His body was later exhumed in order to be sent home by the wishes of his family. When exhumed, it was discovered the body in the grave was another soldier. When Otto was buried along with another man from his regiment, they had been switched in error.

The correct body was identified and reburied in the National Cemetery, Middle Village, Queens, N.Y. From what I recall the practice of sending bodies home was less expensive than the cost of paying to send the family to visit the grave.

Ralph

Edited 14 September , 2019 by Ralph J. Whitehead

[Guest]

On 23/11/2013 at 09:45, Ralph J. Whitehead said:

My wife's great uncle Otto Ernst, 165th U.S. Infantry, killed 28 July 1918 near the Our river. His boy was recovered several days afterward and. Grief in the local U.S. cemetery. His body was later exhumed in order to be sent home by the wishes of his family. When exhumed, it was discovered the body in the grave was another soldier. When Otto was buried along with another man from his regiment, they had been switched in error.

The correct body was identified and reburied in the National Cemetery, Middle Village, Queens, N.Y. From what I recall the practice of sending bodies home was less expensive than the cost of paying to send the family to visit the grave.

Ralph

He was in Company I, which was in the same battalion as my uncle. My uncle, in Company G", was wounded 2 days later but came home to marry his sweetheart and raise a family.

An excerpt from Fr. Duffy's book on your wife's uncle.

"On the left of them and in the middle of the line, Company I held the field and suffered even greater losses; but they too kept working steadily forward and no man went back whose duty it was to stay. Lieutenant H. H. Smith was killed on the last slope, urging his men forward. Sergeant Frank McMorrow and William Lyle, Paddy Flynn, and Hugh McFadden kept the platoon going. Lieutenant Cortlandt Johnson, like Captain Ryan, kept moving all along the line unmindful of danger, until he was badly wounded. His platoon was in good hands. Sergeant Charles Connolly took command and kept them advancing till death called him from the fray. Across his body fell Tommy Brennan, his closest friend — “In death not divided." Sergeant Billy McLaughlin, a thorough soldier, took command but five minutes later he, too, was killed as he led the advance shouting, "Let's go and get 'em, men!" Otto Ernst and John O'Rourke were killed at the very top of the hill, but Lenihan and Vail, Adikes and Lynch, still held the survivors together until they, too, were wounded. John J. Maddock, a veteran of the Regular Army, was badly hit while trying to save Corporal Beckwith. Here, too, fell Lieutenant Beach, killed by shrapnel while shooting an automatic. Alongside him lay in a row like harvest sheaves, Matt O'Brien, William Corbett, Roger Minogue, Patrick McCarthy, Patrick McKeon, Floyd Baker, Louis Bloodgood and James Powell. Sergeant Charlie Cooper escaped severely wounded and Dan Mullin led what was left of the platoon. It was at the top of the hill that the Captain was wounded, a bullet going through his left side"

 

[PaulC78]

On 13/11/2013 at 07:46, Guest said:

Western Times - Thursday 10 November 1921

Killed while serving with the American Army-Funeral at Higher Cemetery. Hundreds of citizens of Exeter lined the streets of the City yesterday, and the Higher Cemetery was packed to overflowing, the occasion being the funeral of Mr Walter George Hooper, son of Mr Hooper, of 97 Portland street, Exeter, who when a member of the American Army, was killed in France. The ceremony was of a most impressive character. On arrival from Paris, the body was conveyed to the Salvation Army Temple, where a short service was conducted by Commander J Stobart. To the accompaniment of the Army Band, under Bandmaster Cox, the Hymns " Son of my soul " and " Rock of ages " were fervently sung. Staff-Capt Dalrymple read a portion of scripture. The service concluded, the cortège, headed by a firing party from the Devon Regiment under Lieut E A Bullock, proceeded through the streets to the Higher Cemetery. The coffinplaced on a gun carriage from Topsham Barracks, drawn by six horses, was covered with the American Flag. It was of polished oak with silver furniture, and the inscription on the breastplate read: " Walter George Hooper, died 5th July 1918, aged 21 years, 11 months. " The service at the graveside was conducted by Commander Stobart. Capt Dalrymple offered prayer, and the Salvation Army Band rendered Hymn tunes. Three volleys were fired by the party from the Higher Barracks, and a Bugler of the Devons sounded the " Last Post. " The family mourners were, Mr and Mrs Hooper (father and mother), Mr F L Hooper (brother) Miss D Hooper (sister), Miss Grimshaw, Messrs F Scribble, H Isherwood, R Spicer, L O Huxham, Harle, (Locomotive Superintendent, Exmouth junction), Mr and Mrs Howard, Mr and Mrs Kneel, Mrs Thorpe, Mr George F Walsh, Quartermaster Corps, United States Army, Eastleigh Aerodrome, Southampton, represented the United States. Floral tributes were sent by the family; Mr and Mrs Howard; Messrs Tribble, Spicer, Huxham, Isherwood and Miss Grimshaw. (friends)

Not sure if a grave was ever looked for or found, but Walter George Hooper was apparently buried at Exeter Higher Cemetery, sec. D, div. 270, no. F.

Exeter City Council provide burial index cards on their website: https://exeter.gov.uk/people-and-communities/bereavements-services/burial-index-cards/

[Matlock1418]

On 12/11/2013 at 22:16, old sparky said:

I have anectdotal evidence (my wife's family) of the death from wounds of Pte G W Smith 1 Hants at Netley (27th August 1916). His parents were informed of his passing and they had to instruct a local undertaker to collect their son and arrange the burial in his home churchyard.

My understanding is that in the UK & Ireland the Military arranged for the return of a body by train to the local railway station in the family's hometown or immediately close by - at the Nation's expense

If a military funeral was to directly follow then that expense was also picked up.

But if the first and/or second part not undertaken by the military/not desired by the family then the family had to make local arrangements, as appropriate, at their own expense.

Similar situation regarding a headstone - private memorial at family's own expense.

The family would normally have had some choice over what was undertaken.

Many families chose not to have the military involved - but consequentially had to provide at their own expense.

M

Edit: What a dreadful week that was for the family with the loss of another son, Albert Edward SMITH, R/13417,KRRC, KiA in France just 3 days earlier.

I can imagine their parents not being overly pleased with the Military right then.

Following on - their mother, Jane SMITH, received a RW Art. 21.1.(c) dependant's pension combined award of 10/-pw [See WFA/Fold3 pension cards]

Edited 28 April , 2022 by Matlock1418
edit.

[old sparky]

Thank you for this M. I have now a newspaper account of the funeral and there was a military presence. The brother was William John who was killed in Delville Wood but apparently the family was unaware of his death at the time of Gilbert's funeral. He is commemorated on Thiepval Memorial. There was also another brother serving in India.