army numbers.

[stevej60]

Sorry if this question has been asked before but would an army number give a clue to the date of enlistment,My relative was James Kirton

2nd bn.Welch regiment his number was 43217,there is evidence that he enlisted in the Tyneside Irish and after a few occasions of going

AWOL during 1915 was possibly discharged,However I have seen on a now lost on line source that he enlisted in Cardiff in 1914.He was

kia on 8th November 1917.His photograph is on ancestry in a Gateshead war honours scrapbook I have seen it using my libraries access

but was unable to get any kind of copy any suggestion on how to would be appreciated.Steve.

[BillyH]

Steve,

It is a very poor copy of his photo on Ancestry.

If a GWF member has a copy of the Gateshead War Honours scrapbook then the best bet is to get them to take a macro shot of the photo for you.

BillyH.

[Graham Stewart]

Sure you have the right James Kirton as there was two of them, but only one served with the Northumberlands. The 43217 Pte James Kirton, Welsh Regiment - seems to have only served with that unit and not the N.F.

Whereas;-

013388 Pte James W. Kirton, Army Ordnance Corps - did indeed transfer to the 24/27th Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers as 59160, being later transferred to the 14th Bn,N.F. and then IX Pltn,'C' Coy, 12/13th Bn,N.F. with whom he was KIA on the 16th April 1918,(he was also declared MIA on the same day), but he was actually a native of Boston, Lincolnshire.

Have rechecked my Database and you must be referring to James Kirton, 2 Sunderland Street, Newcastle, 24th Bn, N.F., who enlisted 6th November 1914, but who disappears from trace after his last Court appearance in September 1915.

[sotonmate]

If the Welsh Regt man date of enlist is a bit erratic for other numbers in the 43--- series:

43052-8.1.1916

43164-5.1.1916

43222-10.6.1916

43800-30.5.1916

MIC and Soldiers Died shows only one unit served.

[stevej60]

Sure you have the right James Kirton as there was two of them, but only one served with the Northumberlands. The 43217 Pte James Kirton, Welsh Regiment - seems to have only served with that unit and not the N.F.

Whereas;-

013388 Pte James W. Kirton, Army Ordnance Corps - did indeed transfer to the 24/27th Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers as 59160, being later transferred to the 14th Bn,N.F. and then IX Pltn,'C' Coy, 12/13th Bn,N.F. with whom he was KIA on the 16th April 1918,(he was also declared MIA on the same day), but he was actually a native of Boston, Lincolnshire.

Thanks for the reply Graham.there is a mystery around this,in an earlier post I had a reply from John Sheen as he had the information about the instances of James going

AWOL and appearing in court where his regiment must have been reported as Tyneside Irish although he was unable to trace his army number,His address was given as

2 Sunderland street Newcastle.When his death was reported in 1917 his address was number 6 and his brother in law who was wounded was living at no.2 he was called

Richardson James wife,s maiden name,so it was too much of a co-incedence not to assume it was indeed the same James,

John was later contacted by his grand daughter and told the tale of his discharge and enlistment in Cardiff and in a reprint

of his book kindly added James later service and death to the book.The fact that I have seen James enlistment dated 1914 has me puzzled.He was my Gt Grandfathers brother.

[Graham Stewart]

He's one of the many that John was unable to trace, who seemed to go on the run shortly after enlistment. Sadly these court appearances don't have their Regimental number's so we're left in the dark about them. Pleased to hear John was told the tale of the Discharge and re-enlistment and was able to add him to his T.I. reprint. To be honest though the only other source which would possibly hold futher information is the Police Gazette - a fortnightly publication, which used to list Deserters. However whether or not he made it into the PG, would depend on the reporting authorities.

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Hi,

If he had been tried in any other court they would have included his number but for some reason Newcastle Court didn't think it important.

John

[Blue_ALH]

Hello I have recently discovered that my Great Grandfather joined the Tyneside Irish on the 6th September his number was 97382. The document I saw - briefly - showed him as part of the 24th. In your research have you seen anything related to him? I have seen that - possibly after their major losses he ended up with the Tank Corp. Bovvy were no help unfortunately. His name was George Wright.

[Graham Stewart]

Hello I have recently discovered that my Great Grandfather joined the Tyneside Irish on the 6th September his number was 97382. The document I saw - briefly - showed him as part of the 24th. In your research have you seen anything related to him? I have seen that - possibly after their major losses he ended up with the Tank Corp. Bovvy were no help unfortunately. His name was George Wright.

I'm afraid there is no record of a 97382 George Wright serving with the Northumberlands and no Medal Index Card exists, nor have I picked him up in the N.F. Medal Rolls. He does have a Medal Index Card showing him serving with the Tank Corps with that number, but no previous service in the Northumberlands - had he previously served with them before the T.C., then another number would have appeared. Therefore we can't really confirm that he ever served with them.

Of the 28 George Wrights that did serve with the N.F. - none show any transfer to the T.C..

[Blue_ALH]

Thanks for the quick reply. I have a copy of his medal record card which as you say lists him as with the TC. I did find his attestation record with that number showing him as joining when he was 30 and 6 months. That had 24th written on the top which I took to be 24th one of the Service Battalions forming the Tyneside Irish. Having discovered he came from Ireland at the turn of the century it made sense. Unfortunately since I did all the work over the 'free' weekend on ancestry.co.uk I didn't save it and can not now access it.

[Blue_ALH]

That's the next bit of the puzzle. Bovvy have no record when I asked them to look. However he had two service numbers - one with the Tyneside Irish and then one that appears with his medal record witht the TC.

[spof]

I would start a new post entitled "George Wright 97382 Tank Corps" which should attract the attention of TC researchers. As his MIC only shows a TC number, he never went abroad with the NF. If you can give the NF number along with his TC one, it may help.

[Blue_ALH]

Joined as 601 Wright, George on 06.11.14 then sent to work in shipyards as a supernummary until required. Transferred to Tank Corp 28.06.17 (Class II Mech.) was in France after spell with 3 reserves. I assume from this and your research he never made it to the Somme with the Tyneside Irish as he appears to have been posted on 01.02.16.