The Pope's Visit to the Menin Gate

[Hedley Malloch]

I am reading a book called 'Ypres as Holy Ground: The Menin Gate and the Last Post' by Dominiek Dendooven published by De Klaproos, no date, ISBN 90-5508-051--9. There is a section entitled 'The Menin Gate - open for interpretation' which WFA members might of interest.

Dendooven's argument is that the Menin Gate is open to different interpretations. He acknowledges that it is a memorial to the dead and then goes on to note:

"Even so - and not withstanding the protestations of the Imperial War Graves Commission … it is easy to see the Menin Gate as a monument of victory. The aspect is undeniably that of a Roman triumphal arch. There is the watchful lion looking out over the battlefields to the east, whilst the laurel wreaths and garlands of oak leaves are intended to symbolise courage and self-sacrifice. The inscriptions - 'Pro Patria, Pro Rege' also lean in the direction of what … Wilfred Owen called 'the old lie: dulce et decorum est pro patria mori'. … In view of the dual nature of the memorial it is not surprising that it has been subject of a much varied comment and criticism throughout the years".

Later he writes:

"The debate about the meaning of the Menin Gate acquired a new topicality during the 1980's, the decade in which the peace movement … reached its height. … Similarly when Pope John Paul 11 visited Ypres in 1985 he did so because of the city's self-proclaimed commitment to the cause of peace, a fact underlined during the Last Post Ceremony under the Menin Gate, when His Holiness prayed explicitly for world peace. … it is clear that the Pope saw the memorial as a monument to peace, like many thousands of others who see those lists of 'intolerably nameless names' as a powerful argument against the use of force in international affairs".

He concludes by writing:

"Widely differing opinions about the Menin Gate will continue to exist, probably as long as the monument itself. … the Gate leaves no-one indifferent and that it provokes a healthy and constructive debate on matters of contemporary relevance - all in all, no bad qualities in a war memorial".

The Pope's visit to Ypres and prayers for peace at the Last Post are news to me. I cannot recall any protests about that. Further, His Holiness, as spiritual and temporal leader of the Roman Catholic Church, has some authority to speak on behalf of the 5-6000 Catholics commemorated on the Gate. Insofar as his remarks were an 'argument against the use of force in international affairs' perhaps he would not have any problems in including Blair and Bush in his remarks.

[paul guthrie]

Domineek's remarks seem quite sensible to me. I tried to order his book on line from the publisher with no luck. Who has it for sale?

He is one of the speakers at our WFA USA trip/seminar next April 8-16, speaking on the Indian Army near the Salient. There are eight vacancies, if any of you in the UK are interested contact Flanders Tours or email me for URL for details, itinerary etc.

[ianw]

I could not agree more that the Menin Gate has contained within it both physically and spiritually the entire panoply of opinions regarding peace , war and the tension between these states. Its mute, magnificent , perhaps contradictory stance at the heart of Ypres should indeed encourage us all to contemplate the past events of the Great War and strive to prevent anything like their repetition. Its very ambivalence should indicate that it is inapproriate to hijack it to support or promulgate any particular viewpoint .

As regards the Pope , I would imagine his words and actions under the confines of the Menin Gate were structured very carefully to avoid offending against good taste - I doubt that his cardinals erected disco lights and I doubt that he used tacky sub-sixth form jokes to spice up his address. His success at ensuring respect for everyone's sensibilities at this sacred place is probably indicated precisely because we do not recall any controversy arising from his visit.

[Hedley Malloch]

I am not so sure, Ian. I am reliably informed that His Holiness read peace poetry (the psalms), used artificial lighting which may once have been used in a disco - and a loudspeaker.

Is there to be no end to this man's willingness to trample on the memory of British soldiers commemorated at the Gate in order to make a narrow sectarian and highly political point about peace? It's disgraceful and I am going to write to the CWGC about this .... .

Seriously though, Ian, what is going on here is easily explained. It's called double standards. We have one set for the Pope, whose behaviour we dare not criticise. And we have another for Belgians peace activisits who lack papal clout and can therefore be regarded as fair game.

[Steve_McGarry]

Hedley I think you will find the only book that the Pope promotes is the good one!

I don't think you can really compare a book promotion, to a visit by the pope... I am sure the Pope didn't use the occasion to make snid comments about political leaders of the day... The Pope is probably a little better know world wide than the Menin Gate so would not need to use it for any particular axe he may want to grind.... where as the temptation for nobodies to use the Menin Gate for their own ends is clear to see. I am sure heads of state visit the Menin Gate all the time. It is only double standard if they use that occasion to promote their Memoirs and know one complains... As for the Menin Gate's "triumphal arch" .... It needs to have a hole in it to let the cars pass through

Regards

Steve

[Hedley Malloch]

I am sure the Pope didn't use the occasion to make snid comments about political leaders of the day (snip) where as the temptation for nobodies to use the Menin Gate for their own ends is clear to see. Steve

Steve,

The Pope is Jesus' representative on Earth. Jesus did have a lot to say about the quality of political and military leadership in Roman occupied Palestine - and he was not afraid to say it; in the opinion of many it is one of the things for which he was crucified.

Jesus also had a great deal to say about the rights and the value of the people you describe as 'nobodies' especially when compared with the rich and the powerful. Rich men, the eye of a needle, access to Heaven; the widow's mites - remember?

Above all he had a message of peace - and I don't think he would be too fussy about who endorsed it or where they did it. And if it is not a problem for Him, then why should it be one for us?

Regards

Hedley

[Steve_McGarry]

Hedley,

Without wishing to turn this debate into a religious one... I think when you said that the Pope was Jesus's representative on Earth, you were not stating that as a fact, just that it is an opinion held by some. I don't think the uproar over the Menin Gate was about Peace, I think it was about selling a book... and using the occasion to promote a book and personal opinion.. The lights were just bad taste in my humble opinion..... "nobodies" perhaps was not the phrase I was looking for .... maybe "all and sundry" would have been more fitting as I agree "nobodies" is not a nice way to describe anyone. I had, however never heard of this poet and had he not used the occasion to be controversial, I probably never would have... I understand he is a controversial character. It is a question of lines and where to draw them...We all have varying levels of tolerance. I for example consider myself a liberal

Regards

steve

[ianw]

I can't comment on what the Pope may have said at the Menin Gate in 1984 because I have not seen a summary let alone a transcript so I cant agree that we are in anyway demonstrating double standards.

I would like to think that I would have the courage to criticise His Holiness, The Archbishop of Canterbury , The Chief Rabbi or whomever if they disported themselves under the Menin Gate in the same way as those people did in September. But of course people like this recognise the range of people's sensibilities and opinions and behave without the gross arrogance that we saw at the Menin Gate in September.

Hedley , you seem to have bought the party line that criticism of the September event and similar ones demonstrates beyond all reasonable doubt that the critic is some sort of blood crazed militaristic maniac that spits on the idea of Peace and bayonets babies for breakfast ! This is not

so.

No doubt the bars of Ypres will tonight see a few little conclaves muttering about the perfidy of the UN Security Council vote and musing over the weekend Remembrance ceremonies. Lets hope their "trappistes" taste a little sourer than in September.