BEF 1914. Books. Help please.

[Guest]

Hello.....I need some help and informed guidance on books relating to the BEF in 1914.

I have been deep diving into the BEF in 1914. I have most of the Infantry battalion War Diaries (the digitised ones) the OHs and some books which were recommended on the GWF some months ago;

Mons: The Retreat to Victory by John Terraine

The Mons Star by David Ascoli

Farewell Leicester Square by Kate Caffrey

August 1914: Surrender at St Quentin by John Hutton

The Mons Myth by Terence Zuber

.... Which mostly focus on parts of the campaign. I am very keen to find a single volume on the BEF in 1914. If anyone has any thoughts on any title(s) they would be very gratefully received. The more detail and the more academic the better. It may be that there is no single volume that can do this period justice and I may need to break 1914 down along the lines of the Operations as defined by the battlefield nomenclature committee. The OH Vol 1 is rather dry. I am not a fan of Edmonds' writing style.

If anyone can also point me to relevant reviews (maybe your own reviews) that would be equally welcome.

Separately, are any of the Divisional histories of any use or are they the usual eulogies? I have a reasonably low expectation of Divisional histories after wading through those of the 10th, 53rd, 29th and 52nd Divs on other campaigns.

Thank you in advance.

MG

[Jim Hastings]

Hi Martin,

There is 'The Old Contemptibles, The British Expeditionary Force, 1914' by Robin Neillands, admittedly one I have only dipped into now and then and not read cover to cover, but I bought it when I was intent on making up a library of 1914 books, including three of the titles you list above.

Perhaps worth a look?

All the best with your search, Jim

[Steven Broomfield]

Personally I have always found Neillands' books more or less unreadable (all of them).

Farrar-Hockley wrote a couple of books, on Mons and on Ypres which, though dated, are still pretty good, I'd say.

[David Ridgus]

Hello.....I need some help and informed guidance on books relating to the BEF in 1914.

I have deep diving into the BEF in 1914. I have most of the Infantry battalion War Diaries (the digitised ones) the OHs and some books which were recommended on the GWF some months ago;

Mons: The Retreat to Victory by John Terraine

The Mons Star by David Ascoli

Farewell Leicester Square by Kate Caffrey

August 1914: Surrender at St Quentin by John Hutton

The Mons Myth by Terence Zuber

.... Which mostly focus on parts of the campaign. I am very keen to find a single volume on the BEF in 1914. If anyone has any thoughts on any title(s) they would be very gratefully received. The more detail and the more academic the better. It may be that there is no single volume that can do this period justice and I may need to break 1914 down along the lines of the Operations as defined by the battlefield nomenclature committee. The OH Vol 1 is rather dry. I am not a fan of Edmonds' writing style.

If anyone can also point me to relevant reviews (maybe your own reviews) that would be equally welcome.

Separately, are any of the Divisional histories of any use or are they the usual eulogies? I have a reasonably low expectation of Divisional histories after wading through those of the 10th, 53rd, 29th and 52nd Divs on other campaigns.

Thank you in advance.

MG

Martin

I would endorse Jim's suggestion of Neillands' s book which I loved. You might also want to try the following:

Retreat and Rearguard 1914. The BEF's actions from Mons to the Marne by Jerry Murland

Ypres. The first battle 1914 by Ian Beckett

Riding the Retreat. Mons to the Marne 1914 Revisited by Richard Holmes

Gentlemen, we will stand and fight. Le Cateau 1914 by Antony Bird

If you want to look at memoirs of the period, my own view is that the old warhorses are still the best so I would go for: 'Old Soldiers Never Die' by Frank Richards and 'There's a devil in the drum' by J F Lucy.

On individual actions I also love the Salient Points series (the second has a lot of 1914 cameos).

These are all personal favourites and may not all meet your academic criteria but I can assure you they are all a darn sight more entertaining than the OH and any number of Divisional histories!

David

[RobL]

I don't know how common knowledge it is so wont mention exactly who, but one is coming out in I believe the next few months by a very well known author that I'm very excited about

[Jim Hastings]

If its who I think RobL they told me the same about a month or so ago and, agreed, it was already mentally 'bought' as it were!!

[Steven Broomfield]

I don't know how common knowledge it is so wont mention exactly who, but one is coming out in I believe the next few months by a very well known author that I'm very excited about

Michael Morpurgo?

Wow!

[Guest]

All - many thanks. So are we agreed that the Div Histories are a waste of money?

I am not sure that a book recommendation by an author whose name is so secret none dare mention it is really going to advance my knowledge. As long as his name is not Godot I suspect we will eventually find out.....

MG

[nigelcave]

The 7th Div History is not at all bad, nor is the 2nd on 1914; the le Cateau that I did wth Jack Sheldon has the advantage of giving something of the German side of the battle. Alex Johnston's (Pen and Sword) memoirs are interesting on 1914, as are Billy Congreve's (ed Terry Norman); there is a BE on Nery and on the Aisne and a recent full scale book on the Aisne 1914. Some of the cavalry regimental histories on 1914 are good as well, always bearing in mind the readership for whom they were intended.

[Steven Broomfield]

All - many thanks. So are we agreed that the Div Histories are a waste of money?

MG

Bit of a sweeping statement. As Nigel Cave says, one has to remember the readership for whom they were intended, and the information available. They provide a relevant opinion of what happened, and are seldom less than interesting.

And if they are a waste of time, my wife is going to want to know what I've been doing with our kids' inheritance.

You also refer regularly to Yeomanry histories, so pretty much the same rules apply

[Stoppage Drill]

Farrar-Hockley wrote a couple of books, on Mons and on Ypres which, though dated, are still pretty good, I'd say.

He was a great man. It was a privilege to serve under him, advise him, visit the WW1 battlefields with him, and be invited to lunch him out on his last day in uniform. As far as I am concerned he deserved a VC for 22/23 April 1951 (at least as much as Fred Carne did) and for his subsequent conduct during 2+ years of Chinese Communist captivity.

I don't know any other author you could say something like that about. Do you ?

Loyauté m'oblige

You had to get things right for him though - wasn't called Horror-F*ckley for nothing !

Anyway, to address Martin's opening post. I suppose it depends how much you already know and want to read about, but I have recently been informed by Nikolas Gardner's "Trial by Fire - Command and the British Expeditionary Force in 1914". That's a 2003 book; contemporary recommendations might be Paul Maze's "Frenchman in Khaki" and Edward Spears' "Liaison 1914", but you know, chacun à son goût.

[Guest]

Nigel, many thanks for the recommendations.

Steven, I wouldn't disagree. I had already ordered the 7th Div history, but I was curious to know if anyone thought it was a worthwhile read. I tend to find that the Divisional histories are disappointing. My interest is really focused at the battalion level and I rarely find that the Divisional histories add much more than I can glean from a combination of the war diaries and the battalion histories.

There is always a caveat; I have a deep rooted belief that most early published unit histories tend to subordinate the truth to the primary objective of perpetuating unit reputations (something that I have mentioned many times before). Maybe this is due to the "audience" they are aiming at. What I find fascinating is when, for example as happened in the 29th Div , the line breaks and most of the regimental histories and most of the war diaries are all blaming the adjacent battalions within the same Brigade. That is when (occasionally) a divisional history might shed some light. The war diaries can also distort the truth, but personally I have greater faith in them than the early published histories. Comparing the two is often an illuminating exercise. My preference is to try and look at multiple sources recording the same event and then try and make an informed view on which many 'versions of the truth' are likely to be right.

You mention the Yeomanry* which provides a good example; across the 14 regiments in the 2nd Mtd Div that crossed the Suvla plain under shellfire, four have completely different recollections of the order of march and either claim or imply they were the lead unit; a clear attempt to enhance their role(s). Three of them can't be right and only by going through the diaries and published histories of the adjacent units is it possible to try and work out which one did lead (Middlesex Hussars by the way). While all the Yeomanry histories (in this case) may have their weaknesses, the ability to read across all the histories and all the diaries increases the probability of getting to a more accurate version of the truth. The fact that they are each writing for a different audience has in this case distorted their respective versions of the truth.

I am transcribing the BEF diaries for 1914 and expect to see more than a few conflicting accounts. Hence my interest in weighing up the value of the Divisional histories.

Your thoughts are always welcome. MG

* no Div history save the 74th Div of Yeomen dismounted and made into infantry.

[Guest]

Stoppage Drill. Thanks for the recommendations. I have Spears. A brilliant man. MG

[Steven Broomfield]

You had to get things right for him though - wasn't called Horror-F*ckley for nothing !

My f-in-law served under him as a Conscript (not National Serviceman - he was called up right at the end of the war) in the West Indies. The stories he tells of F-H are fantastic and my f-in-law (not a huge respecter of the officer class) loved the man. Indeed, he was only bribed out of signing on a regular by his mum buyinh him a motor bike, but F-H was the reason he was tempted in the first place. On the bright side, he missed Korea as a result, so not all bad, I suppose.

[Stoppage Drill]

My f-in-law served under him as a Conscript (not National Serviceman - he was called up right at the end of the war) in the West Indies. The stories he tells of F-H are fantastic and my f-in-law (not a huge respecter of the officer class) loved the man. Indeed, he was only bribed out of signing on a regular by his mum buyinh him a motor bike, but F-H was the reason he was tempted in the first place. On the bright side, he missed Korea as a result, so not all bad, I suppose.

Happy to validate your f-i-l stories. Was he 2 GLOSTERS ? ? ?

[stevem49]

Not sure if it would be of help, but I have 'The retreat from Mons by Major A Corbett-Smith (1917)(First published in September 1916)

The appendix 1 has some of the despatches from French and App 2 - Order of the day August 29th 1914.

Not an in depth study but it was written soon afterwards. His ORBAT (he calls it 'The Roll of Honour') is included.

Dedicated to Smith-Dorrien! and proof read by him.

Steve M

[David Filsell]

For what it's worth in my opinion Corbett Smith is much underrated.

[Steven Broomfield]

Happy to validate your f-i-l stories. Was he 2 GLOSTERS ? ? ?

Certainly Glosters (obviously), but not sure of battalion. Would the "amalgamation" of the Regular battalions not have happened by then?

One story concerns a scheme which involved climbing a steepish cliff. The radio operator refused to try on the basis there was no way he'd get the radio (remember - the size of a reasonable-sized wardrobe) up the cliff. F-H took it and climbed the cliff.

He then came back down the cliff, took off the radio, and said the the radio op that if he, F-H had done it, so could the radio op.