seaforth78 Posted 29 October , 2013 Share Posted 29 October , 2013 Hello, I was wondering if any KRRC experts have a photo of this young officer who was killed on 25th September 1915? I don]t have the KRRC Chronicles as I usually collect to the Rifle Brigade. His father was Brigadier Charles Scudamore who survived the war. Many thanks! S78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 29 October , 2013 Share Posted 29 October , 2013 Seaforth - your best bet is probably the Rifles Museum in Winchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 29 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2013 Indeed, i just thought if someone here had a book or journal which showed an officers' group must do the trick. Thanks all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 31 October , 2013 Share Posted 31 October , 2013 I can only find his father in the Army List, so he appears not to have been a pre-war regular KRRC officer. As such, he's unlikely to appear in the 2/KRRC officer group photos in the 1914 KRRC Chronicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfrank Posted 3 November , 2013 Share Posted 3 November , 2013 I believe I have him as a gentleman cadet in a group photo taken at Sandhurst of G Company, RMC dated May 1915. Only problem is - it's in a sealed frame. If you don't have luck elsewhere, I'll see what I can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 4 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 4 November , 2013 Hello Mr. Frank, That would much much appreciated as I have drawn a blank up to now. Thank you for your interest and I look forward to hearing from you. Best, Seaforth78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 4 November , 2013 Share Posted 4 November , 2013 .... as I have drawn a blank up to now ....Seaforth78 Seaforth - have you checked the London Gazette? He has an entry in 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 4 November , 2013 Share Posted 4 November , 2013 Commissioned 12 May 1915. Joined 2/KRRC 13 Jun 1915 KiA 25 Sep 1915 near Hulluch. This of course was the same action where Rfn Peachment won his Victoria Cross. There's a short obit in the 1915 KRRC Chronicle. If you have Scudamore's sword, we'd love to see some pictures. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 4 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 4 November , 2013 Hi Mark Many thanks for this. I had sent you a PM. S78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 7 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2013 There's a short obit in the 1915 KRRC Chronicle. If you have Scudamore's sword, we'd love to see some pictures. You will be glad to know that I won his sword today and post a photo of it. Could you possibly reproduce his obit. please? It would be nice to have it with the sword. Best S78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 8 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2013 Commissioned 12 May 1915. Joined 2/KRRC 13 Jun 1915 KiA 25 Sep 1915 near Hulluch. This of course was the same action where Rfn Peachment won his Victoria Cross. There's a short obit in the 1915 KRRC Chronicle. If you have Scudamore's sword, we'd love to see some pictures. Cheers, Mark Hi Mark, Where was Scudamore in relation to Peachment when the latter won the Cross? Were they in the same Coy or platoon? I am sorry I don't have any KRRC literature on hand to check. Thanks S78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 8 November , 2013 Share Posted 8 November , 2013 Hi Mark, Where was Scudamore in relation to Peachment when the latter won the Cross? Were they in the same Coy or platoon? I am sorry I don't have any KRRC literature on hand to check. Thanks S78 That I would love to know and clearly it would considerably enhance the value of the sword if they fell close to each other . Presumably Bosleys did not spot the VC connection. Have you got Scudamore's officer's service record from Kew? That would be the easiest way to progress this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 8 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2013 Hiya Mark I'm going to check tonight to see if his papers are there. In the meantime could you tell me if you know what his platoon and company was please? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 8 November , 2013 Share Posted 8 November , 2013 Hiya Mark I'm going to check tonight to see if his papers are there. In the meantime could you tell me if you know what his platoon and company was please? Thanks As I said above - I would love to know Scudamore's company and platoon. With only three months at the Front, his service record will sadly be rather short, but nevertheless I'd greatly appreciate a copy. It will be quite illuminating for the process of training a junior officer. Let me know how you get on at Kew. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 9 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2013 Hi Mark Many thanks for this. I had sent you a PM. S78 BTW, I sent you a PM; did you read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 9 November , 2013 Share Posted 9 November , 2013 BTW, I sent you a PM; did you read it? About RSM Ing serving at the Rifles Depot in 1926? Nothing conclusive found so far, but I don't have all the KRRC and RB Chronicles for the 1920's. Between 1919 and 1926 any NCO could make it to RSM, and there are a few Ings in both regiments. Do you have any initials for him? Again, your best bet is the RGJ Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 9 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2013 Indeed. I just thought if you had anything on hand before I try the Museum. But thanks anyhow. His sword is coming up for sale and this is a presentation inscription from the WO's and Serjeants of the Rifle Depot for his commissioning in 1926. Further, he must have been a RB man as the oval on the sword guard is not plain as for KRRC but wreathed for RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 9 November , 2013 Share Posted 9 November , 2013 Indeed. I just thought if you had anything on hand before I try the Museum. But thanks anyhow. His sword is coming up for sale and this is a presentation inscription from the WO's and Serjeants of the Rifle Depot for his commissioning in 1926. Further, he must have been a RB man as the oval on the sword guard is not plain as for KRRC but wreathed for RB. Are you sure on the spelling of 'Ing'? I cannot find his commissioning being gazetted. I did find a WO1 Sjt.-Maj. S.E. Ings, retired in 1928. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 9 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2013 Hi, This is our man alright. He apparently wasn't commissioned (my guess) as the sword is an officer's one. Best S78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 11 November , 2013 Share Posted 11 November , 2013 Hi, This is our man alright. He apparently wasn't commissioned (my guess) as the sword is an officer's one. Best S78 Sorry, I'm not following your logic - it's an officer's pattern sword yet he was not commissioned? Can you clarify? I'm happy to help, but having spent a fair bit of time hunting unsuccessfully for his commission in the LG, I'll stop for now, pending some more accurate info from yourself to run with. The exact inscription would be a good start. Can you also clear up the exact spelling of his name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 11 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2013 Hi Mark, I'll PM you on the RSM as I don't wish to muddle up this thread on Scudamore with Ings. But thanks a lot on your efforts so far. Best wishes, S78 PS I found Scudamore's papers at Kew and am now awaiting an estimate to have them copied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 20 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2013 Found his obit in the 1915 KRRC Chronicle: 2nd LIEUT. J. SCUDAMORE. This most promising young officer was killed in action in France on September 25th 1915, in his 20th year [sic; he was still 19] whilst serving with the 2nd Battalion. He received his commission on May 12th, and was for a short time time attached to 5th Special Reserve Battalion. He was the only child of Lieutenant Colonel C.P. Scudamore, DSO late Royal Scots Fusisliers, and Mrs. Scudamore of Yarrow Field, Mayford, Surrey. His sword which is pictured above was bought from Wilkinson Sword Company in May of that year and duly sharpened by the battalion's armourer for active service. Its poignant to think as I look at it in its mint state how his family treasured it until fairly recently. Regretably , no photograph was present with the Obituary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 .... in his 20th year [sic; he was still 19] .... He would be aged 19 for the whole of his 20th year wouldn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforth78 Posted 20 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2013 Nope. If he had lived, he would have obviously become 20; because his death occurred in the 20th year of his life, hence the qualifier 20th year. Typical Victorian/Edwardian speak; surely you have seen it before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 21 November , 2013 Share Posted 21 November , 2013 Sorry - you're wrong. A man's first year begins at his birth and ends at his first birthday. His age for the whole of his first year is nought years. Likewise a man's twentieth year begins on his 19th birthday and ends on his 20th birthday. His age for the whole of his twentieth year is 19 years. Archaic perhaps to modern ears, but accurate nonetheless and nothing to do with any variant Victorian/Edwardian way of speaking. Hence no need for your sic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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