Thiepval Memorial / Cemetery duplicates

[katb]

One of the officers (AHW Burton, 7th Lincolns) I have been researching has his name on the memorial and is buried in the adjacent cemetery and I was wondering whether anyone knew of any other such examples of this happening? Presumably his body was discovered and identified in the early 1930s.

I did write to the CWGC to see if they had any further information and when and where he was discovered but all they could do was to say that he must have been dug up in the early 1930s - didn't seem to have any more detailed records on this individual. Again, if anyone has any thoughts / general info on this kind of thing I would be most interested and appreciative.

[Terry Carter]

Hi Katb

An officer of the 1/8th Royal Warwicks, Captain Stratford Walter Ludlow, was KIA on 1 July, 1916 and he is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial. Then during the early 1930's his remains were found and identified by a gold ring. He is now buried in Serre Road No.2 Cemetery and his name is still on the Thiepval memorial.

Regards

Terry

[katb]

Hi Terry - thanks for that. Presume that that unit must been been attacking around Serre for him to have been buried there. Not sure why Burton, who was killed in Les Beoufs / Le Transloy area, was buried in the mostly unnamed Thiepval Cemetery...

[katb]

Hi Terry - thanks for that. Presume that that unit must been been attacking around Serre for him to have been buried there. Not sure why Burton, who was killed in Les Beoufs / Le Transloy area, was buried in the mostly unnamed Thiepval Cemetery...

[Terry Denham]

When a body is found and identified, CWGC move the place of commemoration to the new burial site. As this previously missing man would also be listed on a memorial, the memorial name will be removed in due course as each casualty can only have one official commemoration site (as given in CWGC's database).

Even though the database is changed immediately, the name is not actually removed until the relevant panel is replaced and this can take years or even decades.

The person still only has one official commemoration though - the one shown in the database and any residual names on memorials are not counted and officially no longer exist.

The Thiepval Cemetery is unique in the sense that it was created for artificial reasons - to demonstrate equality of sacrific with the French. As such the bodies were brought from various areas of the Somme.

[Hugh Pattenden]

Wasn't John Kipling's grave identified recently? If so, he is comemorated twice, as he was still on the Loos Memorial as of August 2003.

Hugh

[Terry Denham]

Hugh

Nobody is commemorated twice - even if they have a grave and a name on a memorial as I said above.

The only commemoration is that listed in CWGC's database. The fact that there may still be a name carved on a memorial is not relevant.

The superfluous name will be removed when that part of the memorial is renovated. However, the remaining existance of a memorial name does not constitute official commemoration.

Years ago names were removed as necessary but now, for cost reasons, names are left until renovation means they can be deleted as part of an overall renewal project.

[katb]

So it is all a question of budget and renovation?

Hmmm