Alfred Gordon Dumbrell

[SRD]

I have an Alfred (Gordon) Dumbrell b 1889 Ashurst Sussex of John & Caroline.

There is a record at CWGC of his death with more info at www.roll-of-honour.com regarding the war memorial at Ashurst which states that he was a Private in the Royal Fusiliers 11th Bn. who enlisted in Chichester and died in 1917 after being taken captive.

His MRIC shows the Victory & British medals being awarded but The Long Long Trail says the battalion was:

"Formed at Hounslow on 6 September 1914 as part of K2 and came under command of 54th Brigade, 18th (Eastern) Division.
Landed at Boulogne in July 1915."

Firstly can anyone find any further information regarding his war service?

Can someone explain how, if the regiment was raised in Hounslow in 1914, he was enlisted in Chichester and failed to receive a Star?

Thirdly can someone explain the letters Spts on his MRIC?

Thanks.

[Colin W Taylor]

SRD

Presumably he enlisted in the in one of the Sportsman's battalions (23rd or 24th) of the Royal Fusiliers at Chichester. I'm no expert on the battalion but often some of the more specialized battalions recruited men from around the country or he enlisted specifically to join that battalion. He may have not gone overseas with one of these battalions or may have been wounded or sick and returned only to be later sent out to the 11th Battalion. My initial guess would be that he was wounded and captured in the fighting at Cherisy on 3 May 1917; it was the most recent large battle the battalion took part in.

Kind regards

Colin

[sotonmate]

On the question of the 1914-1915 Star entitlement,the MIC has no date of entry into a war zone which usually means that a soldier first landed after 31.12.915 and thus had no entitlement. He may not have enlisted immediately in 1914,and may have taken a training place of one of the earlier soldiers whose training had been completed and had been posted to the Front with another Battalion.

[SRD]

Thanks both, that makes an understandable chain of events.

I'll post in the citations etc. section for the other bit.

[johnboy]

The 11th [service] Bn Royal Fusiliers were at Codford before leaving for France 26/7/15.

[johnboy]

From LLT

23rd (Service) Battalion (1st Sportsman's)
Formed at the Hotel Cecil in the Strand, London, on 25 September 1914 by Mrs E.Cunliffe-Owen. Initially known as the "Hard as Nails Battalion". Moved to Hornchurch in Essex.
June 1915 : came under command of 99th Brigade, 33rd Division.
Landed at Boulogne in November 1915.
25 November 1915 : transferred with Brigade to 2nd Division.

24th (Service) Battalion (2nd Sportsman's)
Formed in London on 20 November 1914 by Mrs E.Cunliffe-Owen.
March 1915: moved to Hornchurch.
June 1915 : came under command of 99th Brigade, 33rd Division.
Landed at Boulogne in November 1915.
13 December 1915 : transferred to 5th Brigade in 2nd Division.

It would seem he did not go with either battalion.

I don't know if his service number would maybe have been changed.

[SRD]

Thanks, I haven't found any evidence of a number change but I think the idea that he enlisted with one or other of the Sportsmans Battalions and then, for whatever reason, was unable to travel with them to France and was then posted on to the 11th to replace casualties probably holds most water, although why the MRIC doesn't show that I know not.

[Donald D]

For info on numbering of the two Sportsmans battalions look at this link, http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/royal-fusiliers-sportsmans-battalions.html. From that I would surmise that Alfred Dumbrell was allocated the Spts number in the 30th Service Battalion Royal Fusiliers. This was created after the call for recruits to the 23/24th reached the maximum number for each Battalion. The 30th was then designated as a training Battalion for both Battalions, and then as a feeder to other Royal Fusilier Battalions.

As he ended up in the 11th Battalion RF he would not have had a change of number as he was still in the Royal Fusiliers.

[Guest RobT]

John Dumbrell had two sons, Alfred (the subject of this post) and Albert. Albert survived the war and had a son, Noel. I am due to visit Noel this coming Thursday, 9th Jan 2014. I will see what I can learn of his Uncle's war if there is still interest in this topic.

Rob

[SRD]

Thanks very much. I'm always interested in any detail, military or civilian, of the descendants of William & Elizabeth Hillman. There's more information at http://www.riverdale.org.uk/phpgedview/