Call-up dates for older married men under the Military Service Act?

[generalist]

Hi all,

I'm trying to figure out some details about the way the 1916 Military Service Acts were implemented. As of mid-1916, any married man not having a specific exemption through being in a reserved occupation, conscientious objection, etc, would be liable for conscription if below the age of 41:

http://www.1914-1918.net/msa1916.html - first Act

http://www.1914-1918.net/msa1916-2.html - second Act

The "classes" listed for the first Act match those of the Derby Scheme. Some questions:

#1 - When the married exemption was removed, did married and unmarried men get assigned to the same classes, or were a new set of classes (24-46) created for married men, as with the Derby Scheme? http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/military/indexes/surrey-registers has a note suggesting that the classes went up to 47, which would suggest a second run.

#2 - The Derby Scheme page on LLT has a very helpful list of call-up dates by group - http://www.1914-1918.net/derbyscheme.html - but I can't seem to find a similar one for the Military Service Act classes. Does such a list exist, or was it more complicated than a simple class-by-class progression?

#3 - What happened to men who reached the age of 41 after the Act came into force, but before being called up?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm looking at the RN service record for a man who was born on 13/4/1876, and joined the RNVR/RNAS on 11/4/1917 - two days before his 41st birthday. He was married, but had no children and was (probably) not in any reserved occupation, and the timing makes me very curious as to whether the threat of conscription into the Army played a part...

Thanks,

Andrew.

[ss002d6252]

or were a new set of classes (24-46) created for married men, as with the Derby Scheme?

Yes and No - the MSA has its classes but they mirrored the Derby Scheme.

#2 - The Derby Scheme page on LLT has a very helpful list of call-up dates by group - http://www.1914-1918...erbyscheme.html - but I can't seem to find a similar one for the Military Service Act classes. Does such a list exist, or was it more complicated than a simple class-by-class progression?

http://gordonhighlanders.carolynmorrisey.com/Recruitment.htm

Craig

[ss002d6252]

#3 - What happened to men who reached the age of 41 after the Act came into force, but before being called up?

They would be liable for conscription based on the date specified for the start of the act - if they changed circumstances afterwards then the original circumstances applied for call up.

He was married, but had no children and was (probably) not in any reserved occupation, and the timing makes me very curious as to whether the threat of conscription into the Army played a part...

If a man asked to join the navy then the navy got the first call - some men saw it as better to ask to join the navy than by forced in to the army and sent to France.

Craig

[Guest]

These are my notes taken from Carolyn's excellent information. I think I have these right, and am more than happy to have any mistakes pointed out.

Derby Scheme Groups Proclamation and Call Up dates

20/12/1915 Single Groups 2, 3, 4, 5 (DOB 1893 - 1896) Proclamation

8/1/1916 Single Groups 6, 7, 8 9 (DOB 1889 - 1892) Proclamation

20/1/1916 Single Groups 2, 3, 4, 5 (DOB 1893 - 1896) Call Up

30/1/1916 Single Groups 10,11,12,13 (DOB 1885 - 1888) Proclamation

8/2/1916 Single Groups 6, 7, 8 9 (DOB 1889 - 1892) Call Up

16/2/1916 Single Groups 14 - 23 (DOB 1875 - 1884) Proclamation

25/2/1916 Single Group 1 (DOB) 1897 Proclamation

29/2/1916 Single Groups 10,11,12,13 (DOB 1885 - 1888) Call Up

7/3/1916 Married Groups 25 - 32 (DOB 1889 - 1896) Proclamation

18/3/1916 Single Groups 14 - 23 (DOB 1875 - 1884) Call Up

28/3/1916 Single Group 1 (DOB) 1897 Call Up

7/4/1916 Married Groups 25 - 32 (DOB 1889 - 1896) Call Up

27/4/1916 Married Groups 33 - 41 (DOB 1880 - 1888) Proclamation

13/5/1916 Married Group 24 (DOB 1897) Proclamation Also Married Groups 42 - 46 (DOB 1875 - 1879) Proclamation

29/5/1916 Married Groups 33 - 41 (DOB 1880 - 1888) Call Up

13/6/1916 Married Group 24 (DOB 1897) Call Up

13/6/1916 Married Groups 42 - 46 (DOB 1875 - 1879) Call Up

Mike

[ss002d6252]

If I remember correctly every man over 18 at the start of the MSA (unless other exempt) was automatically enrolled in to the Class B army reserve. Presumably they placed them in the army reserve first and then sent off any requests to the Royal Navy for consideration with the proviso that the army wouldn't call the man up until the navy had made their call.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

#2 - The Derby Scheme page on LLT has a very helpful list of call-up dates by group - http://www.1914-1918...erbyscheme.html - but I can't seem to find a similar one for the Military Service Act classes. Does such a list exist, or was it more complicated than a simple class-by-class progression?

I've just read through a Times newspaper article on this question:

There is a difference in that the Derby Scheme groups were called up from Feb 1916 but the MSA started being called from 3 Mar 1916 - by 17 Mar 1916 it was anticipated that all single men under 31 years of age would have been called up under both schemes so the systems would be harmonised and that from 18 Mar 1916 the 'older men' would be dealt with - later followed by the married men.

Craig

[generalist]

Thanks all. So the process would have been:

* our man does not volunteer early in the war, and does not sign up with the Derby Scheme in 1915

* in March 1916, the first MSA kicks in and he breathes a sigh of relief, being married, but...

* in the summer of 1916 (date?), the second MSA kicks in and he is deemed to be enrolled in the Army Reserve, but as a married man of 40 he knows he will be in a low group.

Presumably there would have been some kind of formal contact for these men in the summer of 1916 - a medical, or some form of paperwork? - when they could make the naval preference known, have the details confirmed, potentially claim exemption, etc. After which, they go back home and wait for the call-up...

One other question: there was a maximum age for conscription, but was there a maximum age for voluntary recruitment, either to the RN or Army?

Thanks again,

Andrew.

[ss002d6252]

* in March 1916, the first MSA kicks in and he breathes a sigh of relief, being married, but...

* in the summer of 1916 (date?), the second MSA kicks in and he is deemed to be enrolled in the Army Reserve, but as a married man of 40 he knows he will be in a low group.

A married man would likely have known his time was limited - there seems to have been a lot of discussion regarding when married men would be called up and when the law would be changed.

Presumably there would have been some kind of formal contact for these men in the summer of 1916 - a medical, or some form of paperwork? - when they could make the naval preference known, have the details confirmed, potentially claim exemption, etc. After which, they go back home and wait for the call-up...

This snippet from the Times should help but its still not 100%.

Craig