2/7th Warwicks-body steel plates

[SilverFox100]

I have been reading the war diaries of the Royal Warwick regiments and one in particular has caught my eye, the one above 2/7th. The above regiment was involved on 1st October 1916 in a raid on a German trench to capture an enemy soldier. It was in the Fauquissart sub section. The object of the raid was to and I quote from the orders "To enter the enemy's trenches, remain in for 10 minutes, kill Germans, obtain identification and prisoners, and blow up any mine shaft in the vicinity". The raid achieved its objectives, was successful in all matters and a report on the raid was made. This is the reason for my writing now - in the report and I quote again "Steel jackets worn by all ranks was the means of saving many wounds as many men report as having been struck by pieces of shrapnel which dented the steel plate and caused a small bruise on the body" In my rather limited experience of all things WW1, I have never come across this before in anything I have read. Has anybody else any experience of this? Did the steel jacket become a general means of protection and was it only ever used by raiding parties? I find this of great interest because I never thought anything like this existed at that time. Any comments, thoughts and knowledge would be great. Regards. Mike

[Colin W Taylor]

Mike

I was aware of commercially available body shields in use buy those willing to buy them and I know the Germans issued body shields to bombers and stormtroops. I have not heard of any on issue to British troops (though I admit I am no expert) except for those willing to buy their own (eg the Dayfield Body Shield). I had not heard of their corporate use previously by the British Army. As someone who currently has dealings with the defence industry this sounds like a CO has provided a number for his men (like H Jones of 2 Para buying M79s for his battalion prior to the Falklands Conflict) or a commercial company has provided some samples to a unit to show off their effectiveness.

That's my view on this anyway.

Kind regards

Colin

[Andrew Upton]

On 25/10/2013 at 06:17, SilverFox100 said:

... "Steel jackets worn by all ranks was the means of saving many wounds as many men report as having been struck by pieces of shrapnel which dented the steel plate and caused a small bruise on the body" In my rather limited experience of all things WW1, I have never come across this before in anything I have read. Has anybody else any experience of this? Did the steel jacket become a general means of protection and was it only ever used by raiding parties? I find this of great interest because I never thought anything like this existed at that time.

On 25/10/2013 at 10:06, Colin W Taylor said:

I have not heard of any on issue to British troops (though I admit I am no expert) except for those willing to buy their own (eg the Dayfield Body Shield). I had not heard of their corporate use previously by the British Army. As someone who currently has dealings with the defence industry this sounds like a CO has provided a number for his men (like H Jones of 2 Para buying M79s for his battalion prior to the Falklands Conflict) or a commercial company has provided some samples to a unit to show off their effectiveness.

Body armour was available, both privately purchased (for those that could afford it) and issued for raids and similar - eg:

 

 

"Not sure what pattern was at the Gaol, but body armor was actually fairly common.

By Nov 1917 Ordnance Base Depots were storing for use around 400 sets of Body Armor (Heavy Pattern), 200 sets of Body Armor (Light pattern) and 400 sets of Japanese Necklets per Division. This would be issued as needed. Photographic evidence of use is slim, but the occasional body armor in use can be seen in photos.

The heavy pattern was the "Dayfield body shield, 1916- 1917" which was made of manganese plate and fairy effective, 20000 sets were in France by Oct 1917. The light pattern was usually the "Featherweight" body shield, but a few others were also used such as the Chemico Body shield.

The Japanese Necklet is very interesting. It is very modern in concept as it is made up of 24 layers of Japanese silk of six momme and stiffened by wire. The defence was reckoned to be about the same as that supplied by the helmet. Unfortunately, the silk deteriorated at a very alarming rate.

Body shields were also fairly popular private purchase items."

 

"There's a reference in the Lancashire Fusiliers History describing a battalion-strength raid carried out by the 12th Battalion in April of 1918 which mentions the use of body armour: On the whole front the enemy works were entered after hand-to-hand fighting and casualties were inflicted and dug-outs discharged. A feature of the operation was that 33 body shields per Company were issued and proved most useful in warding off bayonet thrusts and splinters of bomb and shell."

 

"The 7th Beds carried out a trench raid on the night of 27th April 1916.

All 32 men were equipped with Dayfield Body shields and Steel Helmets.

2/Lt Harry Driver who led the raid, reported 'Steel Helmets and Dayfield Body Shields. The former proved valuable. With regard to the latter. Owing to their weight they were not very popular with the men, and it is difficult to ascertain if the men wounded were saved by the shields to any great extent' "

Also:

"There was a raid in May/June 1916 by either the 28th or 14th Bn AIF that were issued with this type of body armour, but practically all members of the raiding party chose not to wear this protection gear as they weighed to much and would have slowed them down."

 

"Here is another raid carried out by the 6th Seaforth Highlanders, the details of which can be found in the History of the Fifty First Highland Division by Maj Brewsher DSO MC. Note the use of some different tactics... The men wore Dayfield body-shields to protect them from bomb splinters... " - After the raid - "the Dayfield body-shields were found to have numerous splinters of bombs sticking into them, and undoubtedly saved the raiders from several casualties."

[SilverFox100]

Mike

I was aware of commercially available body shields in use buy those willing to buy them and I know the Germans issued body shields to bombers and stormtroops. I have not heard of any on issue to British troops (though I admit I am no expert) except for those willing to buy their own (eg the Dayfield Body Shield). I had not heard of their corporate use previously by the British Army. As someone who currently has dealings with the defence industry this sounds like a CO has provided a number for his men (like H Jones of 2 Para buying M79s for his battalion prior to the Falklands Conflict) or a commercial company has provided some samples to a unit to show off their effectiveness.

That's my view on this anyway.

Kind regards

Colin

Thanks Colin for the information. Regards. Mike

[SilverFox100]

Andrew

Many thanks for the info I now understand a lot more. I suppose that it got to a point that it was the choice of the soldier as to whether he wore the body plates if they became available or was it a case that they would have been ordered to wear them when available to reduce the wounding that was going on a great deal.

Many thanks. Mike

[IRC Kevin]

Just happened to come across this when I was trawling through the Lancaster Guardian yesterday. (dated 17th July 1915). Apologies for the poor quality of the picture, but it's one of those microfiche readers with a steeply sloping screen and you can't stand over it get a better angle as it's a top-projection bulb. (Squeamish readers should avoid the right hand article!)

[Seadog]

SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 27 JULY, 1916.

His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to confer the Military Cross on the under mentioned Officers and Warrant Officers, in recognition of their gallantry and devotion

Temp. Lt. Hugh Cowell Kinred, 14th Bn. Glouc. R."For conspicuous gallantry. When a bomb thrown by the enemy fell at his feet in the trench, he at once threw himself on it, and was blown into the air and much bruised and cut by the explosion, his life being saved by his steel waistcoat. His plucky action saved many casualties."

From St John the Baptist, Frenchay nr Bristol church magazine - September 1916

Captain Hugh Kinred, of 14th Glo'sters ("Bristol Bantams"), who enlisted when curate of this parish, has won the Military Cross. The Daily Mirror of August 22nd gives the following account of his exploit, together with capital photographs of himself and the few poor remnants of his tunic both donned and doffed: "The marvelous escape from death of Capt. H.C. Kinred will probably rank as one of the most remarkable stories of the war. While walking along a trench he saw a bomb come over and drop near seven soldiers who were fast asleep. 'In a moment, I saw the danger they were in, and that no time could be lost in picking it up: so I decided to smother it by lying on it. No sooner had I lain on it than it exploded, blowing me from the corner of the trench at an angle of about 30 degrees on to it's top, and I should doubtless have been killed but for the lucky chance that I was wearing a Whitfield steel waistcoat.' The Captain, who was promoted in the field, has been awarded the Military Cross for this act of self-sacrifice, in which he sustained serious wounds."

Capt Kinred was wearing Dayfield body armour (Made by the Whitfield Company)

From the Patent

[kissack]

I have been reading the war diaries of the Royal Warwick regiments

Where can these be read? My wife's grand father was wounded at Cambria on 24 Mar 1918 and was listed as being in Royal Warwickshire Regt (no further details). We'd like to learn a little bit more about where and the circumstances (he did survive the war following GSW to left forearm)

thanks

[Colin W Taylor]

Allan

It would probably help others if you provided his name and what you know and from where - there were many battalions of men of the Warwickshire Regiment and finding which one it is would be desired before searching through war diaries - this may be found on service records, medal index cards or wound badge rolls. The diaries have been partly digitized and can be purchased for certain battalions from the national archives website. Those that have not can only been seen by visiting.

For further advice I'd recommend checking out the Long Long Trail link at the top left of the page which may provide assistance in researching a soldier.

It may be easier to start a new thread with regards to this topic to ensure you attract the Warwickshire Regiment experts.

Kind regards

Colin

[kissack]

Allan

It would probably help others if you provided his name and what you know and from where - there were many battalions of men of the Warwickshire Regiment and finding which one it is would be desired before searching through war diaries - this may be found on service records, medal index cards or wound badge rolls. The diaries have been partly digitized and can be purchased for certain battalions from the national archives website. Those that have not can only been seen by visiting.

For further advice I'd recommend checking out the Long Long Trail link at the top left of the page which may provide assistance in researching a soldier.

It may be easier to start a new thread with regards to this topic to ensure you attract the Warwickshire Regiment experts.

Kind regards

Colin

Colin,

thanks. I'll start a new thread with as much information as I have

Allan

[SilverFox100]

Where can these be read? My wife's grand father was wounded at Cambria on 24 Mar 1918 and was listed as being in Royal Warwickshire Regt (no further details). We'd like to learn a little bit more about where and the circumstances (he did survive the war following GSW to left forearm)

thanks

Hi Kissack

As Colin says you need more information and another thread as you are going to do to get the experts involved. I have some of the war diaries of the Royal Warwickshire but what I have is all downloadable from National Archives. However, most war diaries only give the names of officers, other ranks are rarely mentioned, but generally they will tell you on what day officers and OR were wounded then investigation goes on. Good luck in your hunting. PS if you know what battalion, and there are a few if you ask the experts will tell you which download diary number you need

Mike

Thanks for all the extra information guys very interesting. Must have weighed hell of a lot though

Mike