125 Heavy Battery RGA

[Alan24]

Currently researching my Great Grandfather's war diary (April 1916-April 1917) 8101 Gunner ST Bungey 125th HB RGA. KIA 12.04.17

There are several names listed in the diary whom which I would like to contact any reletives currently researching.

E West

JW Broadhurst 'Broady'

Paul Hope

Charles Fitzsimmons

RG Wall

John Westleigh Shaw

AE Gurr

AHR Kent

I have a signature of the 'OC' which I cannot read. What is 'OC'? Officer in Charge, maybe? Would any records show who this would be in April 1917. Apparently the official war diary of the 125th is largely blank for April 1917.

Thanks in advance for any information.

Alan Bungey

Southampton 20/10/2013.

[ororkep]

Welcome to the forum Alan,

Unfortunately the pages for April and May are missing from the higher formation HAG (Heavy Arty Group) war diary that might have given you the definitive answer. Hopefully your personal diary can fill in some blanks. There is no surviving war diary for 125 HB at all. Therefore the closest I have is that the actual battery Major had assumed command of 62 HAG, this was Mjr C F Liardet, who in March 17 left the group and Capt J T Noble assumed command of 125 (temporary). In July 17 the OC (Officer Commanding) of 125 is given as aMjr B S K Guise Moores

Rgds

Paul

[Alan24]

Thank for the welcome Paul,

Strangely, McMaster University in Canada list the following item in its archive:

Box 11 - Various

F.2 “Historical Record of 125 Heavy Battery, R.G.A., in France”; ts. carbon, 13 pages

http://library.mcmaster.ca/archives/findaids/findaids/w/ww1.htm

Thanks for the names, I'll see if any match up.

I'll list some of the key points regarding 125 which may be of interest to someone.

One such item which springs to mind is:

18 Nov 1916 - "Converted to 6 gun battery. 2 guns from 174."

[kevinrowlinson]

Just in case any relative is searching by name and number the following are those men that you have mentioned. All casualties I am afraid.

61338 E West KIA 23-7-1916

173/292142 John W Broadhurst KIA 22-7-1916

73/292059 Paul Hope KIA 6-10-1916

81/292066 Charles Fitzsimmons (attested Lancs Bde. RFA) KIA 4-10-1916

79/292064 Richard G Wall (attested Lancs. Bde. RFA) KIA 7-9-1916

448/292398 John Westleigh Shaw KIA 8-11-1916

137779 Alfred E Gurr KIA 12-4-1917

99405 Alfred Henry Ralph Kent KIA 12-4-1917

Kevin

[Alan24]

Thanks for the extra detail to the names Kevin.

Those were all listed as killed in my G.Grandfathers diary, except Hope & West who were severly wounded but clearly died at one of the casualty clearing stations, based on where they are burried. The diary does give some brief background to some of their deaths.

Kent & Gurr were killed with my GGF and I have the letter, from the OC 125 HB, to his wife explaining how they died and that they were burried together "in a corner of a large wood at 4pm on 13/04/17" - assume Holnon Wood.

In the diary, another list of names is given on 10 Oct 1916 whilst in Deville Wood:

10 Oct 1916 - "D Pit caught fire about 7pm. Barling, Williams, Harrison, Talbot, Edmonson burnt."

There was a TW Harrison (104468) who died near Ypes on 14 Oct near a casualty station...a long way from Deville Wood but could have been going back to England? Can't find any of the other names in the CWGC site.

Alan.

[kevinrowlinson]

Alan,

If you want a list of men who died with the 125 HB then try Geoffs Search Engine at http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search1421.php . Just put "125th Heavy" in unit box and pick "Royal Garrison Artillery" in the drop down menu of the regiment box. You should also try it's full name of 125th County Palatine Heavy Battery and get one or two more.

It was not 104468 T H Harrison, he died with 155 HB. Of those men that may have served with the battery I can only identify one, 208/292175 Robert Tatham Edmondson. The rest are;

220/292185 Howard Williams

38/292033 Wallace George Williams

174/292143 James C Williams

807/292514 Frederick J Williams

49/292043 John L Williams

281/292242 Stephen Harrison

812/292519 Alan Harrison

363/292316 James Harrison

44/292039 Thomas Talbot

81402 Percy C Barling

8914/297175 Ernest Barling

105732 Philip D Barling

101763 William H Barling

If you have a look at Gnr. Kents service records you will see that he was first buried at Holnon Wood but later reburied at Chapelle British Cemetery.

Putting the diary on forum could help any potential members whose family served with the 125 HB and could fill in a lot of the gaps. It is the personal diaries that hold more names and incidents which just do not get included with any official war diary, even if they do exist.

Kevin

[Alan24]

Thanks to ororkep,

The signature on the bottom of the letter (99% sure) in pencil reads:

13/04/17 OC 125 HB RGA JT Noble Capt. RGA

This is evidence that his temporary command was still ongoing at 13/04/17.

The letter is written on a standard army officer's note book, the one with the 1/4 inch ruled squares. I only have a photocopy but my mother says the original is very thin, like tracing paper.

This is 'ARMY BOOK 153' FIELD MESSAGE BOOK. For the use of dismounted regimental officers and non commissioned officers of cavalry and infantry.

Alan.

[Guest PWest]

Hi,

Thanks for posting, i am a direct relative of E West, Service no. 61338, in fact will be visiting his grave in France in a weeks time. I have just stumbled across this posting and am very interested if you know more about him or how he died. My father says he died from a stray shell which blew his arm off.

Thanks

PWEST

[Alan24]

Hi welcome to the forum. Always pleased to meet another relative of the 125.

Your relative features in my GGF's personal diary.

I'm on the morning commute right now but from memory your

Relative was injured on 22 July 1916 and died in hospital the next day.

Gunner Broadhurst was killed in the same incident on 22nd.

I guess he was a pre war regular with that number - KEVROW will correct me if I'm wrong.

I will get together other bits I have later but what further info do you have?

Alan

[KONDOA]

Check the James Cavell library for a copy of the war diary, many are lodged there instead of at TNA. You have to go personally though, no photographs or printing .

Roop

[Alan24]

PW,

This is the nearest I've found to a War Diary for 125 HB. There is another version of this attached to a different thread uploaded by someone else, unfortunately there are errors by the original author, this version keeps the original text but highlights the errors. Problem is once incorrect info is uploaded to the net it's hard to ever call it back in.

Another unfortunate thing is that both yours and my relative feature in those errors!

Gunner Ernest West probably didn't join the battery at its formation in Liverpool in spring 1915, he would have joined later and the battery had only been in France for 3 months when he was killed. My relative only joined 125 3 weeks after they arrived ion France, it is possible that they could have been part of the same draft - they certainly knew each other. His MIC suggests that he wasn't overseas in 1914 or 1915.

Diary entry for 22 July 1916:

"Bombarded 3 times in afternoon. Broadhurst and West done in. Broady buried 6 o/c. Never to be forgotten day."

These were the first deaths experienced by the battery since arriving in France on 30th April 1916 and it clearly left its mark on the men. The first man to receive a wound in the arm was Gunner Stanley Christie only 3 days earlier.

At this time the Battery was in Mametz Bottom Wood, just behind the main Mametz Wood, they had arrived there on 14 July. The wood still exists today and can be seen on Google Earth.

Can you tell me more about Ernest West, age, place of residence etc. Do you know when he went to France?

Regards

Alan.

125 Heavy Battery RGA, France 1916-1918.pdf

[8055Bell]

Alan,

Thanks for posting the History of 125th. My Grandad's cousin was William Henry Bell, who is mentioned as leaving in May 1917 for a Commission. He went on to serve with 260th Siege Battery and resigned as Lieut in April 1920. His brother Herbert was killed in Palestine with MGC.

Tim

[Alan24]

Tim, delighted to meet another relative of 'The 125'. That makes 3 of us on here now!

My relative was killed in April 1917 so would have served alongside each other.

I'd like to know what info you have on him.

If he was a 292xxx number and from the Northwest he probably was with 125 HB from the start - spring 1915.

If he was a Londoner he may have joined in Nov 1916 from 174 HB who I've heard described as 'Cockneys'.

I've only been able to trace a couple of men so far from 174 HB.

Regards

Alan.

[8055Bell]

Hi Alan,

It's great to travel time together. William was very much Mancunian with Scottish Heritage and had the 292476 number. Here's my Blog post about his brother http://Private Herbert Bell

with my current findings on William at the bottom. It looks like 125th was Lancs County Pallatine Artillery. Is this correct?

Tim

[Alan24]

Hi Tim,

292476 is quite late for 125 HB as men were being enrolled into 133 HB but there is some overlap.

His number would suggest enlistment about May 1915.

Recruitment was from Liverpool and Manchester areas and some from Bolton and areas in between.

When I next get back to a proper computer, I'll send you some more info.

I'll give a nod here to kevrow and ororkep who set me in the right direction when I started my research into 125HB.

Regards

Alan.

[8055Bell]

Hi Alan,

Enlisted 29th May 1915. Please also see the help I'm receiving on 260th Siege Battery

William was from Moss Side, Manchester.

Tim

[Guest]

Looks like my great uncle Charles Fitzsimmons  is mentioned above died at the somme

[Alan24]

Welcome to the Forum.

I'm always pleased to hear from Family members of 'The 125'.

 

Your great uncle was killed whilst on guard over a 60 pounder artillery gun that had got stuck in the mud, in the open, when the battery was tying to move the 4 guns up to FLERS from a position behind DELVILLE WOOD.

 

Charles was killed on 4 Oct, gunner Paul Hope was injured in the same incident and died of wounds the next day.

 

My own great grandfather was on guard duty the next night ,5th Oct, and burried by debris when a shell exploded nearby. He survived to fight another day but was killed later on in 1917.

They managed to haul the gun back on about the 8th Oct.

 

I'll contact you over the weekend with other stuff you'll be interested in.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

[Guest]

thanks hes buried at longueval as far as I know.How do you know he was on guard

[Alan24]

19 hours ago, Fitzsimmons said:

thanks hes buried at longueval as far as I know.How do you know he was on guard

 

Lesley,

I know because My Great Grandfather kept a personal diary and served alongside Charles Fitzsimmons in 125 HB.

Below are the entries to that diary which will help you understand how your Great Uncle was killed.

 

Regards

 

Alan.