Thomas Jenkins 19th Hussars/22 MGC

[misscouz24]

Greetings everybody,

I started the search for my grandfather Thomas Jenkins DOB 16 Jun 1890 some months ago and boy has it been slow going ! I searched the National Archives medal index records but the name was common and it was hard to match him. From family tales it was known that he initially joined the 19th Hussars and I have photo's of him in that uniform to confirm this. Other photo's showed him in a different uniform/cap badge that I later identified as the Machine Gun Corps. I do however have a silver dagger brooch with 'Ypres' engraved on it. He died at a good old age of 78 but of course, too late now to ask him for his story and I cannot bear him to be forgotten.

I visited our local archives office and viewed the Absentee Voters List of 1918 and boom ! found him with ease. His details are 47181 Pte Thomas Jenkins 22 MGC. I went back to the NA medal index and found he had been awarded the British and Victory medals.

Can anyone enlighten me about the '22' please - i.e. would that have been Squadron/Company ? I have deduced that he was Cavalry Branch and another family tale is that he was awarded a set of silver spurs by the Duke of Connaught.

I seem to have hit a wall again. I am hoping to include his story in the planned commemoration of local men who went to the Great War next year at Fishguard, Pembrokeshire.

Have attached a photo to keep it real and any help/pointers where to go next would be so appreciated.

Jayne

[sotonmate]

Welcome to the Forum.

I have seen the Medal Card,so he only served in a war zone with the MGC,and after 1915 or he would also have received a 1914-15 Star. His service other the Hussars seems to have only been at home otherwise his Hussar info would be on the Card.

The 1918 Absent Voters List showing 22 MGC would refer to 22 Battalion Machine Gun Corps,which was part of 22 Division:

http://www.1914-1918.net/22div.htm

Prior to 1918 he may have been in a Machine Gun Company as Battalions didn't exist until April of that year. It is likely that your subject joined the Battalion from one of the three MG Companies of 22 Division,there was one Company per Brigade. If you look at the Divisional make- up in the link I have posted from the Long Long Trail you will see these units under each Brigade.

[sotonmate]

Trying to develop my post but now having difficulty proving that there was a 22 Battalion MGC. Ordinarily a Division had an MG Battalion from 1918 but I am not hitting on a War Diary for it. What I am hitting are the three MG Companies for 22 Division and they were in the Salonika war theatre. Could it be that the Abs. Vot. List mis-described the unit and it should have been 22 MG Company which was with 7 Division in France and Flanders !

The Ancestry UK has no help as there seems not to be a service record for Thomas.

[Steven Broomfield]

Interesting: when did he go overseas? I wonder, is it possible his Hussar service was pre-war and he re-enlisted for the duration in another unit? As thwe 19th Hussars were in France from the start, one would assume, were he a serving soldier at the outbraek or even a reservist, he would have gone overseas quite promptly. If he didn't go overseas until after 1915 (which must be the case), he could have joined up after war started because his Reserve obligation had expired.

[ianw]

I have it in my mind that Columbine VC was also MGC and 19th Hussars.

(He famously kept his gun in action for several hours in March 1918. His stubbornness eventually caused the enemy to call up aircraft to attack his position.)

[misscouz24]

L-G - Thank you so much for taking the trouble to think about my post. It is a difficult puzzle to unravel. Another mystery is that I think the man in the MGC photo that is standing (my g/f seated) is also in the the Hussars photo - which I have attached and maybe you could cast your eye on it to confirm the 19H. I thought my next step would be to check the microfiche records for the local newspaper to see when his call up appears and then maybe I can find out when he went. Worth a try. Thank you again and I will keep going !

Jayne

[misscouz24]

Sorry L-G missed a bit. We (family) think the other man in the photo's is local and that his surname is Vittle which will be easier to find maybe. So that's also another line of inquiry that I will get on with. His family live about 10 miles away so will do some ringing around. I will let you know what else I find out and go back and check the AVL to see if Mr Vittle is listed there too. Clutching at straws ?? What a frustrating business !

Jayne

[misscouz24]

Sorry for the overkill everyone but have come across this and wondered if this could be of any significance :

http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/units-mgc-i-coy-22.htm

This states that it was Infantry and not Cavalry however and one thing that is clear is that the uniform is Cavalry. Any thoughts please and apologies for my initial mistake that it was not one person posting called Lieut-General ! A blonde moment indeed ! So thank you each and everyone of you for replying. Diolch.

[hmsk212]

Hi,

Probably joined the MGC in about July/August 1916.

War & Victory Roll

Steve

[misscouz24]

Thanks Steve,

Can you tell me what this document is and what the last column means please - Class Z (A.R.) 26.3.19 - date of discharge ??

Apart from the photo's and their clues, this is the first time I've actually seen a written reference to Cavalry.

Thank you so much

Jayne

[Steven Broomfield]

Class Z is a reserve classification - he was discharged to the reserve on the date shown. (Z Men were recalled, for example, for Korea - reference The Goons' "Down among the Z Men" for a take on it!).

The Cavalry has been scored out, so I imagine he was initially transferred from the 19th Hussars to the MGC Cavalry, then transferred to the MGC Infantry. The badges are definitely 19th Hussars (monogram of Queen Alexandra - similar to the badge of the Green Howards, who also had her as Royal Colonel). He must have been transferred to the MGC before proceeding overseas, I think, and looking at the uniform, not a pre-war soldier.

[misscouz24]

Thanks for the gen Steve. Ive just spent a few hours trawling through our local paper for 1914 and 1915 and still haven't come across him. All on microfiche so feel seasick now ! In the newspaper, the section was called 'Men we are proud of' when they joined up so I'll carry on and start on 1916 soon.

Regards

Jayne

[Steven Broomfield]

Maybe they weren't proud of him.

[mcassell]

I think Steven is on the right track. The handful of men with 471-- MGC numbers I have info on all appear to be ex-Regular Cavalry (not necessarily pre-war) who were transferred to MGC (Cavalry) in 1916 and used in October 1916 to replace the Indian soldiers with the machine gun squadrons of the Indian Cavalry Brigades in France (Ambala, Mhow, Lucknow, Secunderabad, and Sialkot ). For example, 47105 Private James Vance, ex-King's Dragoon Guards, won the MM with the Lucknow Machine Gun Squadron at Beaumont Hamel in November 1916. The Indian Cavalry Brigade squadrons were disbanded in April 1918 though partially reformed as a 5th Army Troops machine gun unit attached to the 8th Division. I suspect Private Jenkins was in one of these Indian Cavalry squadrons but on disbandment was transferred to MGC (Infantry).

gp