Good scans of Ypres and Passchendaele maps plus a question

[Julian Baker]

Hi all

My grandfather was an acting captain of an entrenching company for 18 months in 1917/18 (NZEF). I have ended up with a number of maps that he kept, often with hand written notes, mud, cigarette burns, wax, coffee cup stains etc. I had a couple scanned professionally recently (ouch), and attach a couple of dropbox links from where you are welcome to download them. Note they are about 250 megs each, so you can search down to quite high magnification.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9su86dxz72mboc/TRENCH%20MAP%2028NE%206A%203-7-17.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wfq8yaf173a14bf/TRENCH%20MAP%2028NW%206A%2030-6-17.pdf

But I also have a question for the handwriting and map experts out there.

I have attached to this post a corner of 28NE where my grandfather has written some directions from somewhere? to BIRR cross Rd. I am wondering if anyone can interpret and follow the instructions backwards and perhaps find the rough starting point. I visited the area a couple of weeks ago (for the third time) and showed the directions to Johann at Anzac Rest Polygon Wood, which got me the end point at BIRR, but I cant seem to find a sensible starting point. For those interested BIRR is just East of Ypres, about 1km further on from Hellfire Corner (towards Hooge craters, on Sheet 28NW). If you look closely you will see he has put a pencil cross at BIRR. No idea why the instructions are written on 28NE! He has also marked some dumps on the road West of Ypres.

This is what I think is written there (more or less)

Strike? Zonnebeke Rd

Turn left on (main / menin?) road

cross light railway

? ? 200 yds further

strike (Corduroy / Cambridge?) Rd, turn

to right + go straight ahead

about a mile to BIRR + Rd

Thanks in Advance

Julian Baker, Perth Australia

[connaughtranger]

Definitely "corduroy road". Such a road was made of hundreds/thousands of tree trunks wired together to make a stable surface to combat the mud and swamp terrain; they meandered for thousands of yards through the slime

Martin

[Julian Baker]

Thanks Martin

I thought it was corduroy but then the map has Cambridge rd coming in from the north and that sort of confused the issue. But if you read it as corduroy that is also my pick from the writing. How dare granddad write so roughly _ heck he had half a candle power and a blunt pencil in a dripping dug out_ salubrious!

Thanks for the assistance

JB

[stevem49]

Wonder if he uses 'strike' as in 'strike out' (used as leave or go)'Strike out towards' etc
Turn to left on Main Road - Birr Cross roads is on the Menin Road, so to early for him to reach that. Probably the main road that still exists (although then just mud and shell holes).

Steve

[connaughtranger]

Thanks Martin

I thought it was corduroy but then the map has Cambridge rd coming in from the north and that sort of confused the issue. But if you read it as corduroy that is also my pick from the writing. How dare granddad write so roughly _ heck he had half a candle power and a blunt pencil in a dripping dug out_ salubrious!

I have a theory that the average man's eyesight was much better 100 years ago. I have maps with manuscript additions in writing so tiny I have to use a magnifying glass to read them. Most people were more attuned to nature's time so slept when it was dark. Their eyes weren't as strained as modern man's by over-reliance on artificial light or hours spent in front of a TV

[WhiteStarLine]

Julian,

Thanks for the maps. I think the missing word is also 'about' and he compressed it due to the corrected word originally after 'railway'.

Bill

[anthony osborne]

Thanks for sharing the maps.

Ant

[ianhwason]

I think finding his start point from the directions given depends on the date of his travel - and finding a date would involve having a look at any diary that is available.

My reasoning for this is that his travel would obviously have been behind the front line and this is very dependant on the date.

For instance should it have been in Sept 1917 the front would have been on a rough line running North - South on the Frezenberg ridge area. This to me would suggest the right turn and straight on to Birr could have been right into Cambridge rd (as you mention above). Following the directions backwards could the starting point have been in the St Jean area? I notice another pencil cross to the right of St Jean, could this be it? I don't see any light railway marked on that route however!

If the date is later when an advance had been made the turn right and straight on could perhaps mean that he was travelling South before turning right ( West) towards Birr.

Hope this makes some sense!

Regards,

Ian.

[EDWARD1]

Ian

I was of the same opinion and have found a trench map 28NW2 6B(S) 30/3/18 which shows a light railway crossing the Zonnebeke Rd at I 5a 1,6 around the Miil Cott,s prior to the right turn into Cambridge Rd which may have been a cordouroy road. The 18 months attachment would have included March 1918

Eddie

[ianhwason]

Ian

I was of the same opinion and have found a trench map 28NW2 6B(S) 30/3/18 which shows a light railway crossing the Zonnebeke Rd at I 5a 1,6 around the Miil Cott,s prior to the right turn into Cambridge Rd which may have been a cordouroy road. The 18 months attachment would have included March 1918

Eddie

Eddie,

A map I have is dated 22/7/17 so I suppose it would be safe to assume that the line was put in between then and March 1918.

The Ssint Jean area/other cross in pencil would be a reasonable assumption then. Diary entry the only way to confirm?

What are your thoughts Julian?

Regards,

Ian

[Julian Baker]

Thanks for your replies and sorry about my late response.

Yes it occured to me he may have used old maps at the time. I am trying to get a closer pic as to where he actually was and when, but at the moment have only started to dig into his record and see that some investigation into the unit histories will also be required.

His record on page 36 has the late 1917 postings, leave etc. by then he had recovered (what??!!) from wounds and seemed to be posted all over the place but looked like being back in france or belgium may to november.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4spqwv1rpi3kwnt/frb%20war%20record.pdf

With the railway i saw a photo of the road running from menin gate and that had a light rail on the south side ( if you were on that rd at some point you would have to cross the railway to proceed to birr) i will post the pic.

Ill look at st jean start point tomorrow once i get back to look at the map but it looks likely that it can work as a north south direction of travel with a couple of dog legs in the middle. I will plot it and post.

Thanks for the help and interest

JB

[ypres]

Hi Julian.

Just looked at this tread, could the first word be 'Streppe' mis-spelt 'Strepe', as there is a 'Streppe Farm' NW of Zonnerbeke in sq D.1.c,8.2.

JIM.

[Neil Mackenzie]

HI Julian

Welcome to the Forum

If you ever come across any references to the Kit and Kat track I would be very interested to hear from you. I know it must have been in the area of the Kit & Kat bunkers which were on the Westhoek-Frezenberg ridge. But there were a lot of trackways, corduroy roads/tracks and duckboard tracks in the general area and I have never found a map specifically showing 'Kit & Kat track'.

I want to find it as my great uncle was first buried alongside that track when he was killed on 14 October 1917 but his grave was subsequently lost and he is now commemorated on the Menin Gate.

Many thanks

Neil

[ianhwason]

HI Julian

Welcome to the Forum

If you ever come across any references to the Kit and Kat track I would be very interested to hear from you. I know it must have been in the area of the Kit & Kat bunkers which were on the Westhoek-Frezenberg ridge. But there were a lot of trackways, corduroy roads/tracks and duckboard tracks in the general area and I have never found a map specifically showing 'Kit & Kat track'.

I want to find it as my great uncle was first buried alongside that track when he was killed on 14 October 1917 but his grave was subsequently lost and he is now commemorated on the Menin Gate.

Many thanks

Neil

Neil,

I'm looking at a 1/10000 map with Kit & Kat marked. Don't know if this is only a reference to the bunkers you mentioned but under the letter K of Kit are two short parrallel lines with their northern starting point joining at the same point at a trench line. ?????

Regards,

Ian.

[Neil Mackenzie]

I have saved this jpeg in Dropbox so hopefully you can access it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqnrmecc292j240/Broodseinde_tracks_mod.jpg

It shows the tracks and various communication features in the area.

Birr Cross Roads is the confluence of tracks, roads etc at I.17.A and I.17.B.

From the information given about Zonnebeke and turning right to reach Birr Cross Roads I would say the approach was from the north east. There is a road coming down past Oskar Farm at I.6.C and then a light railway followed by a track in I.12.B.

I am sorry but I cannot remember who sent me this map - I am sure it was someone on the Forum. If you recognise it as 'one of yours' please let me know.

Many thanks

Neil

[Malcolm]

Does this help?

Aye

Malcolm

[derekspiers]

HI Julian

Welcome to the Forum

If you ever come across any references to the Kit and Kat track I would be very interested to hear from you. I know it must have been in the area of the Kit & Kat bunkers which were on the Westhoek-Frezenberg ridge. But there were a lot of trackways, corduroy roads/tracks and duckboard tracks in the general area and I have never found a map specifically showing 'Kit & Kat track'.

I want to find it as my great uncle was first buried alongside that track when he was killed on 14 October 1917 but his grave was subsequently lost and he is now commemorated on the Menin Gate.

Many thanks

Neil

May be of interest but the following extract in the 88HAG RGA war diary for June 5 1917 when in the Ypres area is -

" 168th Battery carried out destructive shoot on suspected OP KIT & KAT the latter being completly destroyed"