New here, need a little help

[wilbo]

I think I may have found the medal card after many hours searching. It looks like he was probably 2nd Battalion RF because of the South Africa ribbons. From what I have found they were the only battalion to go to SA. If that is the case they then went to India and then Gallipolli via the UK. I am hoping some much more informed minds than mine can fill in a little detail with this medal card ( if it is the right one ). The card is the middle one on the left Reg no L16226. What do you think , any ideas ?

15381.pdf

[kenf48]

The card you have above is for the award of the Military Medal. This soldier's mic is on Ancestry and shows he entered theatre Gallipoli 15/12/15 and was a Corporal.

It could be one of the ribbons is for the MM the award of the MM would have appeared in the London Gazette but as searching that publication is like entering the seventh circle of hell I'll let others do it. The LG entry should show his home town.

Ken

[wilbo]

Thanks Ken. Plowing through the LG now. Lovely!!

[wilbo]

Still looking. Found lots of CH Davis's but none in RF. My head hurts

[aussielhr]

Crown on lower sleeve, cane and what appears to be Boer war medal ribbons I think suggests a WO2. Probably a CSM.

[wilbo]

From what I have found the MM was not issued until 1916 is that correct?. I have been through every MM in the London Gazette from 1916 to 1919 and not found it so far.

[wilbo]

Hi everyone, If I could trouble you a bit more. I have been doing a fair bit of digging and have now found this as well as a separate card for the campaign medals. On this card he had the rank of Lance Sargeant, but in the photo a WO. One thing I am a bit stumped on is that if the medals in the photo are South Africa , that was as far as I understand 2nd Battalion although it looks like some of 6th were attached. Also if he was a CSM by the time this photo was taken , would he have had his campaign medals by then. I reckon the photo was near the end or after the war. The battalion history shows the 6th as being held in reserve that I can find at Hounslow and then Carrickfergus.

charlesdavismm2.pdf

[kenf48]

In the absence of a service record looking at casualties;-

L/16225 Trusty was in D ‘Coy’ 26th Bn killed 26/09/1916 age 20

L/16227 Dawkins was in the 2nd Bn killed 28/11/1917 also age 20

L/16223 Lawrence aged 26 (17th Bn) Originally in the 1st Bn went to France 4/12/1914.

16226 Davis entered theatre Gallipoli on the 15th December 1915; Pte Dawkins is shown as entering theatre Gallipoli on the 2nd December 1915, and Trusty on the 3rd December. However I think it’s reasonable to assume they all left the UK at the same time. Dawkins was from Battersea and Trusty from Fulham.

The SWB Rolls shows16231 Sadler enlisted on the 16 August 1914

According to Paul Nixon’s indispensable site the 16*** numbers and ‘L’ prefix were reserved for men enlisting in the Royal Fusiliers under Regular Service enlistment terms as they followed on from pre-war recruitment http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/royal-fusiliers-regular-battalions.html

This accords with the ages of the soldiers above who would have been around 19 when sent as reinforcements for the 2nd Bn (a Regular unit) at Gallipoli in December and it appears they enlisted under Regular Army terms in August 1914.

For this reason I doubt very much that L/16226 Charles Davis MM is the man in the photograph, I believe he was much younger. If the man in the photo was a Boer War veteran or Reservist it is unlikely he would have been numbered in that sequence. L/16226 is also listed on the mic and MM card as Charles Davis not Charles Henry Davis. A quick look at the census shows one possible born 1895, from Bermondsey but it's impossible to confirm. As a Regular it is possible the photo is much later and they may be the same man but in that case they are not South Africa ribands.

There is someone on the forum compiling a database of all MMs who may be able to help.

Ken

[wilbo]

He was from Cheltenham and lived there after the war . It seems odd to join a London regiment from there. It seems when he died his medals which were on a wall of the house went for a walk . If i could track them down at least i would have some definite data.

[wilbo]

On page 113 of " the royal fusiliers in the great war" there is a mention of csm davis at gommecourt

[wilbo]

Thanks to David ( Dink999 ) and his Gloucestershire archives I have now got lots more information. The photo is in fact Henry Davis ( not Charles Henry Davis ). He actually served in the South Wales Borderers, Royal Fusiliers, Gloucesters and Labour Corps. His records are on Ancestry but I am having trouble deciphering them. I couldnt work out how to link the Ancestry ones to here but I have attached the Source file number. If anyone could have a look and see what you could make of them I would be very grateful. Trevor Henry Davis Record WO364.txt

[kenf48]

Happy to have a look at the records for you, but give us a clue i.e. regimental numbers dob etc.

Ken

[dink999]

Ken,

If you search for Henry Davis, Gloucestershire 5 pension records come up, he is the one listed as born 1883 Cheltenham

The first page you see is no. 66802 though his records actually start on page 66795

1891 South Wales Borderers no. 3665, Then transferred to Glosters no. 3235 in 1892

Another sheet has more Regiments and numbers crossed out(including Royal Fusiliers) before he joined the Labour. Corps no. 159497 in 1916

David

[wilbo]

As Dave says Ken

I have had a few false alarms with Henry ( not least thinking he was Charles Henry ) But with Dave's help it looks like I have the right man now, but his record is really complicated ( to me anyway ). I still haven't seen why he would be in RF uniform at the rank of WO2 when he was a Colour Sargeant in the Labour corps at discharge unless he joined the TA post war or something similar. That could all be my lack of knowledge though .

[Stebie9173]

Colour Sergeants were pre-war ranks and (as far as I know) didn't officially exist during the war, the pre-war infantry Colour Sergeants being appointed as either Company Quartermaster Sergeants or Company Sergeant Majors, both of which held the rank of Warrant Officer Class 2.

Here is my interpretation of his military movements.

Joined South Wales Borderers 21-3-1891 age 18 years

Allocated South Wales Borderers number 3665

Posted to the SWB Depot for training, 21-3-1891

Transferred to the 1st Battalion Gloucestershire Regiment, 28-4-1891

Allocated Gloucestershire Regiment number 3235

Appointed as Lance-Corporal in the 1st Battalion Gloucestershire Regiment, 12-5-1892

Relinquished appointment as Lance-Corporal and reverted to Private, 1-9-1892

Transferred to 2nd Battalion Gloucestershire Regiment, 26-11-1892

Embarked for overseas service in India, 26-11-1892

Granted 1st Good Conduct Badge (chevron) and pay (2 years), 21-3-1893

Arrived back in the UK from India, 28-11-1894

Transferred to the Reserve before the end of his term of engagement with his consent (served 5 years and 5 months) at Devonport, 26-8-1896

Recalled from Reserve to serve in the 2nd Boer War, 13-11-1899

Embarked to South Africa, 1-1-1900

Entitled to the Queen's South Africa medal with clasps for Relief of Kimberley, Paardeberg and Dreifontein; and King's South Africa Medal with 1901 & 1902 Clasps

Absent fro Reveille at Aldershot, 23-12-1899 - 5 days confined to barracks plus forfeiture of Good Conduct badge.

Forfeits 1st Good Conduct badge, 28-12-1899

1st Good Conduct Badge restored, 28-12-1900

Peace treaty for 2nd Boer War signed, 31-5-1902

Arrived back in the UK from South Africa, 9-8-1902

Posted to the Gloucestershire Regiment Depot, 9-8-1902

Discharged from the Depot on completion of 12 years combined Active and Reserve service, 29-3-1903

Re-enlisted for 4 years on Section "D" Reserve service, 11-4-1903

Discharged from Section D Reserve, 10-4-1907

Re-joined the Army at Hounslow, 30-5-1916

Immediately promoted to Sergeant, 30-5-1916

Posted to Royal Fusiliers Depot, 31-5-1916

Posted to 36th Battalion Royal Fusiliers, 2-6-1916 - based at Falmer (Lewes, East Sussex) in the UK

Posted to Depot of Queen's Royal West Surrey Regiment, 1-7-1916

Appointed as acting Colour Sergeant, 3-11-191916

Posted to 29th (Infantry Works) Company, Middlesex Regiment, 17-11-1916 - based at Thetford

29th Middlesex Regiment converted into the 5th Labour Battalion, Labour Corps, 18-5-1917

Transferred to the Labour Corps, and allocated No. 159497, 18-5-1917

Posted to "B" Company, Southern Command, Labour Corps, 18-1-1918

Discharged as No Longer Fit for service, 20-11-1918

Steve.

[wilbo]

That's great Steve, thank you. It's funny how every time you find stuff out it just creates more questions. It seems he wasn't in the RF very long yet the photo of him is in that uniform as a WO2. I have read that Labour Corps troops were quite often anti that they were in it and insisted on wearing their original uniforms . It also seems that in WW1 he managed to avoid any war zones.