Which appropriate memorial

[Guest scotlad]

If a man was born and raised in one place, lived, worked and enlisted in another place 20/30 miles away, was kia. Where was he usually remembered on a memorial?? Was there some kind of system?

regards

Mike

[Terry Denham]

Mike

There was no overall system for local memorials. Each had its own set of criteria as drawn up by the organising committee - usually made up of local dignitaries, the church, local councils etc.

On many occasions they simply asked for names to be submitted. A family would often supply the names of all sons who died even if they did not come from that village/town. Therefore some names appear on several memorials and some on none.

Place of enlistment would not have been used but birthplace, residence, work location were used according to the local system in use.

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Mike

This has been discussed somewhere on the forum before but at the minute I can't find the relevant thread.

Different authorities used differing criteria for commemoration. Some used 'natives' only others natives and those working in the town.

In my research I have found some men remembered at their town of birth and alsoon the memorial at their town of residence plus sometimes their sports club or place of employment.

Dave

[Guest scotlad]

sounds like a pretty ad hoc kind of thing.

Was there ever at least a central registry of war memorials or is it find em where you can. Which is probably the case if my reading is correct.

mike

[Terry Denham]

There was no central register of war memorials as they were all 'unofficial' and whether to have one or not was a local decision.

However, over the past few years, the Imperial War Museum has built up a register of all UK war memorials including buildings and other memorial artifacts as well as those with the traditional lists of names.

It is known as the UK National Inventory of War Memorials and is available to view at the IWM. There are area volunteers all over the country providing the data. No doubt, there are some on this Forum (including myself).

[Guest Hangleton]

try this

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/

[jamiemcginlay]

Hi Scotlad.

In my research the normal method seems to have been to set up a register, often on public display in the town hall or church, with local people being invited to register the names of their loved ones, family, friends etc. who were KIA in the book. The book was on public display so everyone could check that no one was left out and that there were no spelling mistakes. People would often register relatives or friends who had actually emigrated years before and who they knew had been killed. It sounds fairly ad hoc but I think it worked well and it helped to make the commemoration a community effort.

I've also often found the names of men who lived in farms a mile or two from any town being listed on a few different memorials in towns that were within a few miles radius of that farm, in different directions. He would have been a well known face in all these communities and Its right that he was therefore remembered by all of them.

In Scotland there is also a book of remembrance in the Scottish National War Memorial in Edinburgh Castle, listing Scotlands war dead, and I suppose this can be accepted as a fairly complete record.

p.s. I noticed your introduction and checked into John Lawrence. I've recorded a lot of memorials up Fraserburgh way but, unfortunately, havn't visited Kinninmouth ( probably because it isn't even shown on my road atlas ) so I can't confirm if he's listed there. I checked my data base and the only possiblity I came up with is a 'John Lawrence' listed on the Aviemore War Memorial. This is a modern memorial and unfortunately it only gives the name with no further details. Aviemore would also seem to be a bit out of the way for a Fraserburgh man...but if you think this might be your man let me know and I'll see if I can get further information.

Cheers

Jim

[Guest scotlad]

Thanks Pals for the info, roll of honours.

Jamie

John Smith Lawrence was born and raised in Kininmonth/Cortiecram/Rora Moss a few miles east of New Leeds. It's actually just a collection of scattered houses. He enlisted at Methlick which is somewhere round 20 miles to the west, we think he was living, working in that area.

The north east is full of small villages and crofters so you'd need the ordenance survey map Fraserburgh/Peterhead to find it. This is why it is difficult to find out where he is remembered.

Terry

If I was in the country, I'd volunteer to help with the memorial database.

Mike

[kinnethmont]

Mike

Check the thread below from Aug 2004 in this section

Village memorials, new names on memorials

Organisation of memorials in Scotland were not as ad hoc as is being suggested. You need to examine the text on the memorials left behind by those charged with raising them. This will give indications of why those men are commemorated there.

It should be remembered that single men who had gone to Canada, for example, had their next of kin and their family home where their parents were still residing.

In the case of the farm being just outside the town, you will probably find that the memorial was, as most in Scotland are, a parish memorial and that it extends into the rural area.

[Terry Denham]

Jas

The organisation of memorials was ad hoc in the sense that there was no overall system or prescribed process by which names were collected. Each memorial committee drew up its own criteria and presumably stuck to them.

Naturally, the majority had similar criteria.

[Guest scotlad]

Thanks Jas and Terry.

The next time I'm in the country I'll spend a few days doing the parish rounds and not to forget the local pubs and shops where you can sometimes bump into people with tit bits of info.

Mike

[jamiemcginlay]

hello again Mike.

I will take an O.S. map with me next time when I'm up in the North East, but it helps to know Kininmonth is just east of New Leeds, thanks...I've marked it on my road atlas. I know that there is a memorial there as its listed on the Royal British Legion's register which states that it is located at 'Kirkhill'. If I get a photograph I'll be sure to pass it on.

Cheers.

Jim.

[kinnethmont]

Jim

What is the RBL register of memorials you mention and where can it be viewed ?

[Guest scotlad]

Jamie

On the O S map - Kininmonth / Mains of Kininmonth are at the north west corner of Rora Moss, about 4 inches south east of New Leeds. J S Lawrence was born at Croft of Cortiecram right next door.

There is a Kirkhill with a now disused Chapel about 1 1/2 miles due west on the road to Leys, could be this is the Brit. Legion listed memorial.

Mike

[jamiemcginlay]

Hi Jas.

The Royal British Legion in Scotland made up a directory of Scotland's war memorials years ago. It was fairly basic, just stating the town or village were the memorial stands, and giving a very brief description of the location. The memorials were the main community memorials, it didn't list club or works memorials etc.. I was at the Legion's offices in Stockbridge, Edinburgh around 10 years ago and I remember the man who was helping me with records telling me that there were no directories left and that I was lucky to have it! Maybe they've had a re-print since then and are available? You'd have to make an enquiry. Mine has almost disintegrated with use.

I think they made up the directory in conjunction with the Imperial War Museum's National Survey. Its pretty accurate but occassionally I still run into a memorial that isn't listed on the directory.

If you can't get a copy and need it I'd be happy to photocopy pages for you.

Cheers.

Jim.