Wilfred Lowe

[loweman2]

After having great success with the help given to me and finding the records of my maternal granddad Frederick Charles Reynolds I am now trying to find my granddad on my dads side, this one is more of a mystery and the information that I have is not as much to start with.

his name was Wilfred Lowe (no middle name) and he was from Hulland Ward in Derbyshire, he served with the Sherwood Foresters and we believe that his army number was 59993 and that he served in Ireland and France, I have tried searches on ancestry and the national archives but I am doing something wrong as I cant find him, though I have studied the guides on this forum.

to complicate matters it would appear that Wilfred also served with the Royal Flying Corp and I do not seem to be able to find any records for the RFC.

we have photos of him as below in both uniforms.

His DOB was 30/05/1897.

When doing the searches nothing comes up in his name nor the Sherwood Foresters.

I do not know how to check the number that we have with the regiment or of course his name, could the 59993 be a RFC number ?

would somebody please try and start me of or at least find a record of him.

thank you in advance

[RussT]

There is a MIC for a William Lowe, N & D Rgt No 59993, later Manc Rgt

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&gsfn=william&gsln=lowe&f16=&f14=599*&gskw=&prox=1&db=medalrolls&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&ml_rpos=1&rank=1&pcat=39&fh=0&h=10896433&recoff=9+10&ml_rpos=1

Russ

[loweman2]

hi RussT, thanks for your quick reply, my dad had obtained the army number from attending an open evening at a local event, it would appear from the medal card that somebody has not paid very much attention and probably just looked at a W Lowe etc rather than obviously Wilfred Lowe, so this means that we have the incorrect army number to start with !! so just his name and DOB and regiment, would the Notts & Derby have been the Sherwood foresters ?? is it the same regiment

[loweman2]

also I have found out from my father that he was in the RFC first and then called up into the army if that helps

[BRONNO]

I can offer you a little more information but it is all that I have, according to my records he served with 'B' Company, 2/8th Battalion Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regt (Sherwood Foresters), slightly unusual being that he came as you say from Hulland Ward which is near Belper in Derbyshire. The 2/8th Battalion was sent to Ireland with the other 2nd line Battalions of the Regiment and were heavily engaged at Dublin during the Irish troubles. BRONNO.

[loweman2]

hi Bronno thank you for that,

have you read the posts above, did you read that we have now found out that we had the wrong army number of 59993 that was for the wrong W Lowe, it was a William Lowe, my granddad was Wilfred Lowe, if it is Wilfred Lowe that you are reffering to can you please tell me what his army number was please.

many thanks

[rolt968]

also I have found out from my father that he was in the RFC first and then called up into the army if that helps

In the RFC picture Wilfred Lowe is shown with a wound stripe and good conduct stripe. The first dates it to after mid 1916 and the second indicates at least 2 years' service.

Could you possibly give the chronological order of the three events we know? - Ireland, Sherwood Wood Foresters and Royal Flying Corps.

Service in Ireland with the Sherwood Foresters before the RFC picture was taken would be more likely to be with a second line territorial battalion (Easter 1916).

Compulsory transfer from the RFC to Sherwood Foresters would be more likely to take place during the "combing out" of fit men not serving in front line units in very late 1917 and 1918.

(It's probably my imagination, but isn't the shoulder title multi-rowed with a narrow top row - the "T" of aterritorial unit?)

Roger.

Roger.

[loweman2]

thanks Roger, I think we need Bronno to confirm from his records that we are indeed talking about my grandfather Wilfred lowe and NOT William Lowe for whom I had origionally provided the wrong army number that we had been given by mistake.

if it is definitely Wilfred lowe Bronno could you please tell us what his army number was.

thank you for pointing out the wound stripe Roger, it would make more sense if he was in the army before going into the RFC then would it not ?? would he wear a wound stripe picked up from his army days on his RFC uniform ?

we only have my dads memories and he thought it was the opposite way around of RFC to Army but perhaps he is wrong

[loweman2]

does any body know if it is possible to alter the title of this thread to allow me to remove the incorrect army number that I have put in ?? perhaps a mod could do it for me ?? I think it will set any new readers off down the wrong path to start with.

I have looked if I can alter the title myself but it would appear not

[stevem49]

I cannot see a Wilfred Lowe in my nominal roll.

He could have served in Ireland and then moved to RFC pre going to France - therefore it would be an RFC medal index card and not N&D

Steve M

[little bob]

Find my Past Royal Air Force Muster Roll 1918.

There are 6 W.Lowe recorded and I'm unable to pick out which could be your relation.The form is set out.

Number, Name, RNAS or RFC trade, Remustered to RAF, RNAS or RFC rating, RAF rating , Joining date, RAFrate of pay. terms of enlistment.

55326 LOWE W. Misc (labour) Labourer A Mech3 Private 2 22/1/1917 1/6 DW (Duration of War)

406476 LOWE W. Cook Cook A Mech3 Private 2 27/10/1914 1/6 DW

124470 LOWE W. Storeman Labourer A Mech3 Private2 12/2/1918 1/6 DW

131574 LOWE W. Draughtsman Draughtsman A Mech 2 A Mech3 11/2/1918 2s DW

81698 LOWE W. K.S.B.(B.P.) Labourer A Mech 3 Private2 17/5/1917 1/6 DW

28577 LOWE W. M Cyc. M Cyc. A Mech1 Private1 16/5/1916 1/8 DW

Bob

[stevem49]

I do not think he went to France with N&D.

I presume he was the Wilfred Lowe living in Alfreton on 1911 census?

[CGM]

does any body know if it is possible to alter the title of this thread to allow me to remove the incorrect army number that I have put in ?? perhaps a mod could do it for me ?? I think it will set any new readers off down the wrong path to start with.

I have looked if I can alter the title myself but it would appear not

You can alter the title yourself.

Go to your first post in the thread, click on EDIT and then USE FULL EDITOR.

CGM

[loweman2]

You can alter the title yourself.

Go to your first post in the thread, click on EDIT and then USE FULL EDITOR.

CGM

thank you CGM all sorted now

[loweman2]

I do not think he went to France with N&D.

I presume he was the Wilfred Lowe living in Alfreton on 1911 census?

yes steve, 14 Alfred st

[CGM]

You're very welcome !

CGM

[Andrew Hesketh]

I can't find him in the Sherwood Foresters either.

As Steve says, it is possible he was with one of the 2nd line territorial battalions in Ireland, but there are no MIC's for that experience.

Roger mentions a wound stripe that dates the photo to an earliest of mid-1916, and I can tell you that he was not one of the Sherwoods wounded in Ireland in 1916 because I have all of those names. However, you believe him to have been RFC and then Sherwood, in which case his wounding would have been whilst in the RFC.

If, as Roger states, there was potential for a transfer out of the RFC in late 1917 or 1918 then, depending on the date of that obviously, he may well have gone to the Sherwoods but possibly been with one of the training battalions and thus not quite ready for an overseas posting when the war came to an end.

I'm afraid that the only way forward is to try to find his RFC service papers and see if they unlock any doors. The only other path I can suggest, and I'm clutching at straws here, is to start a new thread in the uniforms bit, with the best pic you can get of him in the Sherwood uniform, and ask if there any clues that might help date it - I'm clueless on uniform stuff but there are guys on here who can do wonders. You never know.

Finally - one of the few uniform bits I do know! - his uniform is not 7th Battalion Sherwoods as they were Rifles and had black buttons.

Good luck with this.

[rolt968]

thank you for pointing out the wound stripe Roger, it would make more sense if he was in the army before going into the RFC then would it not ?? would he wear a wound stripe picked up from his army days on his RFC uniform ?

The Royal Flying Corps was a part of the Army. On 1 April 1918 the RFC and the Royal Naval Air Service were combined to form the RAF which was (and is) an independent service.

It would not be impossible for him to have earned a wound stripe in the RFC, though I suppose it would be more likely in the infantry.

Roger.

[rolt968]

One thought.

Can anyone identify the version of the RFC SD jacket? It won't give us an exact date, but it might give us a "not before date" later than mid 1916.

(With the usual apologies, I'm looking for a book I've mislaid (which gives dates for the version of the RFC jacket).)

Roger.

[loweman2]

thank you guys for taking the time to help me with this, as you will have gathered I am a complete novice but I am prepared to go to any length to uncover my grandfathers past, when Wilfred sent the picture of him in the Sherwood forest uniform it was dated 26th March 1915.

is it clear enough to make out his cap badge that it was the N&D foresters ?? I have tried to scan in clearer picture.

[loweman2]

I can't find him in the Sherwood Foresters either.

As Steve says, it is possible he was with one of the 2nd line territorial battalions in Ireland, but there are no MIC's for that experience.

Roger mentions a wound stripe that dates the photo to an earliest of mid-1916, and I can tell you that he was not one of the Sherwoods wounded in Ireland in 1916 because I have all of those names. However, you believe him to have been RFC and then Sherwood, in which case his wounding would have been whilst in the RFC.

If, as Roger states, there was potential for a transfer out of the RFC in late 1917 or 1918 then, depending on the date of that obviously, he may well have gone to the Sherwoods but possibly been with one of the training battalions and thus not quite ready for an overseas posting when the war came to an end.

I'm afraid that the only way forward is to try to find his RFC service papers and see if they unlock any doors. The only other path I can suggest, and I'm clutching at straws here, is to start a new thread in the uniforms bit, with the best pic you can get of him in the Sherwood uniform, and ask if there any clues that might help date it - I'm clueless on uniform stuff but there are guys on here who can do wonders. You never know.

Finally - one of the few uniform bits I do know! - his uniform is not 7th Battalion Sherwoods as they were Rifles and had black buttons.

Good luck with this.

hi Andrew,

thank you for your input,

I have as suggested made a post about the uniforms on that part of the forum but hopefully the guys on here may still come up with something

[loweman2]

here is hopefully a better picture of the RFC uniform

[BRONNO]

I have searched and searched and exhausted all avenues with regards to finding anything on Wilfred, sorry if I may have wrong footed you in an earlier post with 59993 W Lowe, its been very frustrating not being able to pin him down. Good luck in locating him and I will be keeping a close eye on what develops. BRONNO.

[rolt968]

It might be worth trying a bit of "reverse research". If he went from the Sherwood Foresters to the RFC, he would be in the RFC at the time of the formation of the RAF on 1 April 1918. All men who transferred into the RAF can be found in the Muster Roll which I think is in both FindMyPast and Ancestry. You should be able to track down his RAF record (or not) from there. Unfortunately (Air 79) the RAF other ranks' records are not online (yet).

Incidentally, I found one man who I think was "combed out" of the RFC in late March 1918 in Air 79. His Air 79 record consisted of a single sheet saying that his records had been transferred elsewhere because he had been compulsorily transferred, but it did give battalion, regiment and new number.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=193301&hl=

I think there is another example in another post somewhere.

Roger.

[loweman2]

I have searched and searched and exhausted all avenues with regards to finding anything on Wilfred, sorry if I may have wrong footed you in an earlier post with 59993 W Lowe, its been very frustrating not being able to pin him down. Good luck in locating him and I will be keeping a close eye on what develops. BRONNO.

thanks bronno and rolt968, I have made a payment direct to the research team at the Sherwood forresters who hopefully will be able to come up with something on him, all quite bewildering, doing my research though on Wilfred and also my other granddad Frederick Reynolds lead me to another family member who served in the navy in the 1914-18 war and was awarded the distinguished service medal, I will let you know what I can find out about Wilfred, thank you so much for your time guys that you have put in.