Audio of various artillery pieces?

[sneakyimp]

I've heard many written descriptions of the various types of artillery but was wondering if there might exist any audio audio of the jack johnsons, coal boxes, whiz-bangs, flying pigs, blind pigs, toffee apples, piss-tins, rum-jars, whistling willies, etc. available on the internet. The verbal descriptions are a bit hard to follow.

Also, it would be nice to match each nickname with its actual artillery counterpart if anyone has a detailed matrix.

[sneakyimp]

I have managed to find exactly one poor quality MP3 file on this page. The file in particular is this one, apparently the sound of gas shells being fired by British troops advancing on Lille:

http://www.firstworldwar.com/audio/British_Troops_-_Gas_Shells_Bombardment.mp3

I realize that trying to get audio from this era is probably a tall order, but I would also settle for specific textual descriptions of the sounds. I found this particularly good one from "In Flanders Fields" by Leon Wolff. It's a really good book.

From "In Flanders Fields" by Leon Wolff, p 11:

Only the artillery never entirely ceased any day or night. Every shell
had a personality of itsown and could be identified with fair accuracy
by old-timers. Most cannon were light horse-drawn field pieces which
fired small shells, usually shrapnel, about three miles. The British
18-pounder,the famed French 75, and ther German "whiz-bang" 77 were
all in this category. They were not too difficult to detect en route
and gave the men several seconds to dive into cover. On the other
hand, high-velocity pieces were hated because their projectile was
thrown at terriffic speed in a nearly straight line and gave almost no
warning. And except for the great railway guns the howitzers were the
largest of all: gaping monsters that tossed their fat shells almost
straight up and down. The men called them "crumps."

The German 5.9 was also polite and gave the recipient some small time
for acquiring shelter. The last part of its passage was a deep roar;
one was safe if the roar lasted, but if one was in its path it
descended fast and the best that could be hoped for was an extreme
case of shell shock. These were called "coal boxes."

The sounds of the projectiles created a bizarre symphony. Field-gun
shells buzzed in a crescendo and burst with a clattery bang. The
heavies flung their black bodies like great loaves of bread (they
could be seen in flight) across vast reaches of the infinite sky and
approached with the roar of an oncoming express train. Over valleys
they all echoed distractingly and defied prediction. Those that fell
in hollows burst with terrible suddenness and a double crash. Fabulous
indeed was the blast of the 30.5 Australian trench-mortar. An there
were shells that screamed, shells that hissed, gas shells that
exploded with a simpering pop, shells that whistled, and shells that
wobbled across heaven rattling like a snare drum. Finally there was
drumfire, reserved for special occasions, when all the instruments
blended into one homogeneous mass of sound of such intensity as cannot
be described, all bursting into jagged fragments of hot metal that
slammed into the bodies of men and mules with familiar results.

The troops hated artillery more than machine guns, more than snipers,
or bayonets, or even gas; for there was no fighting it, nor could much
really be done to elude it.

[sneakyimp]

So I'm starting to think that the audio I found is in fact a re-enactment for radio dramatization rather than actual audio. The recording ends with a war bonds pitch and the technology of the time didn't really lend itself to edits or track-bouncing.

Furthermore, there seems to be some that say that no such audio exists:

https://twitter.com/OldGreyHorror/status/382588006483247104

[sneakyimp]

The Imperial War Museum apparently has that self-same sample and it appears to be authentic (at least it is presented as such in the IWM archives).

Also: reading Blunden, who talks about "woolly bears" or "black crumps."

[Guest]

This must be the recording the IWM have Click though the link to the audio on this page doesn't work.

Mike

[deano]

Sorry I can't help you sneakyimp, but I have often wondered what the noise would be like during a barrage. Also wondered if ever someone would try and recreate a 'modern' barrage using either real ordnance or audio equipment ? You see all kinds of other recreations, what about a barrage !!

Dean.

[John(txic)]

I think there might be something available for El Alamein; maybe close enough?

[ianjonesncl]

So I'm starting to think that the audio I found is in fact a re-enactment for radio dramatization rather than actual audio. The recording ends with a war bonds pitch and the technology of the time didn't really lend itself to edits or track-bouncing.

Furthermore, there seems to be some that say that no such audio exists:

https://twitter.com/OldGreyHorror/status/382588006483247104

I am trying to find the post where this clip was discussed and the general conclusion being it was not genuine. The loading sounds ok, but the actually firing is nothing like anything I heard over a 25 year period in the Gunners.

It maybe I was standing in the wrong place.

Ian

[sneakyimp]

This must be the recording the IWM have Click though the link to the audio on this page doesn't work.

Mike

I like the content of this article, but a) it's in an arts journal and b ) it doesn't give an author's name or cite any sources except for the "HMV Catalog."

Edited 8 November , 2013 by sneakyimp

[sneakyimp]

I am trying to find the post where this clip was discussed and the general conclusion being it was not genuine. The loading sounds ok, but the actually firing is nothing like anything I heard over a 25 year period in the Gunners.

It maybe I was standing in the wrong place.

Ian

I'd like to see that discussion also. I found a bit more information (including the name of the audio engineer) which suggests that the record is in fact genuine. Perhaps the sound is different because they are gas shells?

[mrjustinhayward]

Apologies for taking the thread back to literary rather than audio description but I'd always found this description rather fine. From War is War by Ex Private X

"We know the calibres of the shells which are sent over in search of us. The brute that explodes with a crash like that of much crockery being broken, and afterwards makes a "cheering" noise like the distant echoes of a football match, is a five point nine. The very sudden brute that you don't hear until it has passed you, and rushes with the hiss of escaping steam, is a whizz bang. For a perfect imitation of a whizz bang, sit by the open window of a railway compartment and wait until an express train passes you at sixty miles an hour.

The funny little chap who goes Tonk-phew-bong is a little high velocity she'll which doesn't do much harm.

"Minnie's" and "flying pigs" which are visible by day and night come sailing over like fat aunts turning slow somersaults turning in mid air. Wherever one may be, and wherever they are going to drop, they always look they are going to fall straight on top of one. They are visible at night because they have luminous tails, like comets.

The thing which, without warning, suddenly utters a hissing sneeze behind us is one of our own trench mortars. The dull bump that follows, and comes from the middle distance out in front, tells us that the ammunition is a "dud".

The German shell which arrives with the sound of a woman with a hare lip trying to whistle, and makes very little sound when it bursts, almost certainly contains gas."

With description like that one hardly needs audio....

Justin H

[sneakyimp]

Justin, I just finished 'War Is War.' What a great book! It's like Holden Caufield narrates 3rd Ypres! It truly gives one a feel for the daily life of Tommy Atkins.

[sneakyimp]

On 11/8/2013 at 06:37, John(txic) said:

I think there might be something available for El Alamein; maybe close enough?

Hello all.

 

I'm still looking for a high quality audio recording of an artillery bombardment. It need not be from the Great War. El Alamein would work just fine. Can anyone tell me where I might find an authentic recording? Unless I'm totally mistaken, the cannon sounds in all the old WW2 newsreel footage appears to be foley or something flown in by the editors. It's far too uniform to be an actual recording.

[BFBSM]

6 minutes ago, sneakyimp said:

Hello all.

 

I'm still looking for a high quality audio recording of an artillery bombardment. It need not be from the Great War. El Alamein would work just fine. Can anyone tell me where I might find an authentic recording? Unless I'm totally mistaken, the cannon sounds in all the old WW2 newsreel footage appears to be foley or something flown in by the editors. It's far too uniform to be an actual recording.

Try these, if you haven't already:

 

 

 

 

Have a look at these:

https://www.avosound.com/en/sound-effects/search/gun/gun-artillery/

 

You could also try contacting Jonathan Ruffle his email is jonathan.ruffle@gbfilms.com, his webpage is here: http://www.gbfilms.com/the-sound-of-ww1/4585664286

 

Also try this:

 

 

Not sure if you have tried any of these, but with some simple modification you might get what you want. If you want help with manipulation get back to me.

 

Mark

[sneakyimp]

I appreciate the effort. Some of these sounds are OK but I was really hoping for an authentic recording. In particular, I was hoping to get a feel for the timing one might hear from a battery of large guns. Is the firing ad hoc? Or does it follow some kind of rhythm?

 

I have since searched on youtube and found some videos of actual combat engagements with both outgoing shots and incoming rounds. The artillery in question is all modern and much smaller than the heavy guns of the Great War, but they really make the hair on your neck stand up. From what I can tell, there is no real rhythmic pattern to the firing. The order to fire is given and the various guns fire at will.

 

Italian artillery at El Alamein? Sounds fairly legit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o47k6XocLc

Some guy on a rooftop in the Middle East
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYUM18LFRS8

incoming 122mm rounds in syria, sadly some machinery sounds but good lord the rushing sound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca9HXAoV7Zw

few and far between but the zoom and impact echo across the valley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHUfQX837qc

Ukrainians firing mid-size artillery very recently...pretty good audio, not much reverb or echo
good barrage sound around 2:45, much louder guns at 3:20 with loooong echo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHUBYzz2KKA

crap editor-added sound from old WW2 newsreels, but video may offer some decent timing suggestions for batteries
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GawrfDJf1pY

awesome vid, in perspective as I imagined, of a 3-gun battery firing bombardment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyAu808Hmgc

[Khaki]

I don't qualify as an expert, but I have been reasonably close to some explosions and howitzers being fired and my recollection is that I felt it (pressure wave) more than heard it I have also heard naval guns at a distance ( thunder similarity)? I don't know how anyone could replicate the magnitude of GW outgoing artillery fire combined with incoming explosions.

 

khaki

Edited 9 March , 2017 by Khaki

[sneakyimp]

23 minutes ago, Khaki said:

I don't qualify as an expert, but I have been reasonably close to some explosions and howitzers being fired and my recollection is that I felt it (shockwave) more than heard it I have also heard naval guns at a distance ( thunder similarity)? I don't know how anyone could replicate the magnitude of GW outgoing artillery fire combined with incoming explosions.

 

khaki

I'd very much like to experience the sound (not in any combat role of course). I can fully appreciate that the experience is not something that can be easily captured or satisfactorily replicated at all with your usual audio gear. My ears tell me that most artillery recordings capture some pale imitation of the massive primary 'boom' but in almost every case most of what one hears is the distorting microphone and/or recording apparatus. You hear mostly distorted artifacts of the recording device being tortured by the overhwelming sound pressure levels -- and then the aftermath of the instantaneous explosion is typically a few seconds of reverberation as the sound gradually scattersacross the landscape, slowly decaying into the distance. Battleship shots at sea have a shorter decay. Shells landing in a valley tend to decay more slowly as echoes bounce off canyons and hills and mountains.

[Ron Clifton]

On 9/9/2013 at 23:41, sneakyimp said:

Fabulous indeed was the blast of the 30.5 Australian trench-mortar.

Austrian, I think! And it was a pukka mortar, not a trench one.

 

There is indeed a recording of the Alamein barrage. The IWM or the BBC will probably have it. I have it on a record called "The Sounds of Time" which contains a number of key recordings from the BBC archives between about 1934 and 1949.

 

Ron

Edited 14 March , 2017 by Ron Clifton
1939 corrected to 1949

[sneakyimp]

Ron, thank you for your response.

 

I've searched the IWM sound archives and the vast majority of sound recordings are either speech or oral history. There do appear to be a handful of correspondent accounts -- but the IWM apparently doesn't have any samples of these online:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=el alamein&items_per_page=50&f[0]=department%3ASound

 

El Alamein happened in 1942...not sure how it would be in a colllection 34-39?

[Ron Clifton]

Oops - just corrected my post. It's 1949.

 

Ron