Minesweeper Photographs & Info.

[jamiemcginlay]

Hi,

Thanks to this site I've just discovered the names of the vessels that my grandfather served on in WWI. As far as I know they should all be minesweepers but having searched my books and the net I can't find any further information on them. If anyone can provide any further information or photographs I'd be very grateful! They are:

H.M.S. Zaria (Longhope, Orkney)

Royal Arthur (Longhope, Orkney)

HMHT Buzzard

H.M.S. Lysander II

H.M.S. Trent II

H.M.S. Thornton

Thanks in advance!

Jim

[Michael Lowrey]

Jim,

Minesweeping was done by a variety of different ship types in WWI. Prewar, a number of old torpedo gunboats were converted into minesweepers. During the war, built a series of classes of fleet sweeping sloops (1,200 ton vessels, bigger than most destroyers of the time) though these were mainly used for convoy escort work from 1917 on. The Royal Navy also built several classes of smaller (800 ton or so) purpose-built minesweepers, and took into naval service a number steamers that were converted into minesweepers. Lastly, a large number of trawlers and drifters were taken into naval service and used for patrol and minesweeping work.

Now, on to the list of ships:

Zaria: there's a Zaria listed as a squadron supply ship in "Conway's", don't know if it was the same vessel though.

Royal Arthur: protected cruiser of the Edgar class, launched 1891, served briefly with the 10th Cruiser squadron early in the war, but by February 1915 was a guardship at Scapa Flow. Later served as a depot ship for submarines.

Buzzard: it would be tempting to think this was the sloop of the Nymphe class that was launched in 1889. However, that vessel was reduced to harbor service in 1909 as President. There was a trawler taken into naval service during teh war with the name of Buzzard, so I presume she's the vessel you are interested in.

The Lysander II, Trent II and Thornton were all trawlers taken into naval service during the war. As such, they would be HMT, not HMS.

Hope this helps,

Michael

[Malcolm]

HMS ZARIA Pennant No Y9.22, 3,549 tons launched 1904, A/P depot ship at Longhope from May 1915

HMS ROYAL ARTHUR

Edgar Class 1st Class Cruiser of 7,350 tons launched 26th February 1891 Portsmouth Dockyard, depot ship at SCAPA FLOW from 1915.sold 1921 for breaking to Cohen Germany.

Hired Trawlers

HMHT BUZZARD,Hull based trawler, Admiralty No 549, Port No H971, 199 tons launched 1907, armed with 1 x 6 pounder AA used for Minesweeping. returned 1919.

HMT LYSANDER II

Lysander Admiralty No 255, Port No H.800 (Hull) of 264 tons launched 1903, renamed Lysander II in February 1915, armed with 2 x 6 pounders, M/S, returned 1919.

HMT TRENT II

Admiralty No 120, Port No FD.12( Fleetwood) of 218 tons launched 1904, renamed Trent II in March 1917, armed with 1 x 6 pounder M/S, returned 1919.

HMT Thornton

Admiralty No 1764, Port No FD.41, of 225 tons launched 1905, armed with 1 x 6 pounder M/S, returned 1919

Info from Dittmar & Colledge British Warships 1914 - 1919.

(Longhope is on the island of South Walls now linked by causeway to Hoy on the western side of Scapa. It was the home of the Longhope lifeboat lost with all hands in 1969)

Aye

Malcolm

[jamiemcginlay]

Thanks all!

Greatly appreciate the help! I've eMailed the museum at Orkney and am keeping my fingers crossed that they might have a few pics.

Cheers.

Jim.

[ajhpayne]

My grandfather James Payne served on HMS Zaria from 1917-1918. I have attached his service record but don't have any more information on this ship, other than what is in this forum.

I will be loading pictures from an album showing him training on one of the vessels, possibly the Zaria otherwise HMS Mingary (I'm guessing) on my website at http://www.paynefamilyonline.com - please give a few days from this post for me to update the site.

[Guest Kaskazi]

I have two reasons to be interested in HMS Zaria. The first is personal, in that we have a photograph of my Father-in-law wearing headgear with HMS Zaria on the ribbon. He joined up on his 18th birthday, 6 Jan 1917, but we know nothing more of his naval service. He always said he was in a trawler - was Zaria technically a trawler? Or is it perhaps that he was attached to Zaria as depot ship, but would then be assigned to other vessels? I just don't know how things worked.

My second reason is that I am compiling a biographical article, for my school old boys' web site, on Captain B.W.L. Nicholson, who, as a Commander at the time, commanded HMS Zaria from Nov. 5 1915 until March 1 1917 (we have this from his naval service record). Previous to this, from Sep 26, 1914 (he was torpedoed in Cressy, Sep 22), he was "'Iron Duke' additional for command of flotilla of Armed Trawlers". I had rather assumed that Zaria was one of these, but I guess not. So I wonder if Zaria's role as supply vessel would have kept her in port or whether she would have supplied other vessels at sea - do you know about this?

I'm a bit puzzled too, because in January 1916, Nicholson was specially mentioned in command of the Northern Patrol - by Admiral CVolville, who also noted "Ever keen and on the hunt for enemy submarines". I think I saw on another page, the assertion that Zaria never served as a minesweeper - but sub-attack?

Any comment on all this will be greatly appreciated, since I am in totally unfamiliar territory.

Can you please tell me what A/P depot ship means?

If you know of any source for a photo of Zaria, I would appreciate hearing. She is the only vessel on which Nicholson served for which i do not have a photograph.

One other tidbit - I stumbled today on a site which lists "missing voters" in Grimsby in 1919 - almost all military. There are a lot of men assigned to HMS Zaria. A lot of them are designated "R.N.R.T." If the T stands for training, I guess she became an RNR training facility at Grimsby after the war - but what do I know? FYI the URL is

http://www.angelfire.com/de/delighted/voters.html

Best wishes

Ron

[Guest Kaskazi]

I'm a bit puzzled too, because in January 1916, Nicholson was specially mentioned in command of the Northern Patrol - by Admiral CVolville, who also noted "Ever keen and on the hunt for enemy submarines". I think I saw on another page, the assertion that Zaria never served as a minesweeper - but sub-attack?

On further thought - and to clear my mind - I guess when you think about it, Colville was referring not to Nicholson's service on Zaria, which began only a few weeks earlier, but to his service with the flotilla of trawlers.

Sorry about that.

Cheers

Ron

[Bruce Dennis]

Ron: quote: A lot of them are designated "R.N.R.T."

I thought the T stood for Trawler. Can somebody say for sure?

Hello Michael, further to the information you gave, at least nine Beagle class destroyers were converted to minesweeping in the Eastern Aegean in 1915 . They used ammunition hoists from a battlecruiser to operate the sweeping gear.

Bruce

[Guest Kaskazi]

I thought the T stood for Trawler.

Thanks Bruce. Since I wrote that, I saw an older thread discussing RNRT. What made me think of "training" was that there are about 6 skippers, 3 or 4 Ch. Engineers/"enginemen" etc., many deckhands - and a couple of trainee cooks! Some RNR, some RNRT, some undesignated.

Thinking on it, I guess if Zaria was still a depot ship, as she likely was, then many of these folks, if not all, would have been the crews of the trawler auxiliaries (or whatever should be their rightful name) which it was her job to service.

Thanks again - makes sense now I think.

Ron

[healdav]

Just as an aside, many of the men who were killed in the Longhope lifeboat disaster actually worked for the RN at the oil fuel depot that was then still at Scapa.

In fact, the RN Supply and Transport Service magazine was putting out an edition (i.e. waiting to go in the post) with a long article about the depot and the men when the disaster happened. All the editor could do was hurriedly put in a slip of paper saying what had happened.

[DaveBrigg]

Anyone looking for pictures of Hull based WW1 trawlers - this bloke had what I was searching for:

KG Jackson,

Hull Heritage Prints

c/o Memory Lane Photographic Gallery

528 Hessle Road,

Hull, HU3 5BQ

Tel/Fax: 01482 326607

Outside the UK +44 1482 326607

Email: KenJackson@hullheritageprints.co.uk

Web: www.hullheritageprints.co.uk

Details of photographs of hundreds of trawlers, pictures of old Hull, etc are on our web site

[ajhpayne]

It's an old thread now, but my grandfather James Payne served on the Zaria "supposedly" served on a Q-ship (or mystery ship). Of the ships he served on (that I am aware of from records) I can only find references to the Zaria. It's not proof that it was a sub chaser, but I grew up being told that's what he did, not that he was sweeping for mines...

I would love to find out more.

[historydavid]

ZARIA per Dittmar & Colledge "British Warships 1914-1919."

Listed as a hired Mercantile Fleet Auxiliary Squadron Supply Ship, built 1904, 3,549 grt, in Admiralty service from 26-11-14 to 30-7-19.

However, from May 1915 was used as Auxiliary Patrol (A/P) depot ship at Longhope. (the A/P consisted mainly of hired trawlers and drifters which carried out a variety of tasks including, minesweeping, submarine deterrent and escort)

I have never come across the name ZARIA in relation to Decoy Ships (Q ships).

Best wishes

David

[ARABIS]

As historydavid says, Zaria was a depot ship. There was a Q ship named Zylpha however. In your post you mention records, is James Payne`s service record amongst them? If you could post a copy of this then we might be able to help identify the ships he served in.

Regards,

ARABIS.

[sadsac]

Jamie, `Et Al', here's something on ZARIA - have more if required ;

PUREY CUST Herbert E CB Captain RNR 84S006 Zaria

Admiral Commanding Orkney & Shetlands Auxiliary Patrols to 31.12.16

From December, 1914, since the institution of the Auxiliary Patrol scheme has been in command of H.M. Depot Ship "Zaria" and in general charge of Patrol Area 111, recommended for the rank of Commodore, R.N.R., in recognition of his services generally. from other appointments already made and his seniorority and responsibility, this would not appear to be anything but a fit appointment and it would be one much appreciated by all under his command and suitable to an officer who has the greatest number of auxiliary patrol vessels under his orders in the British Isles.

No Gong issued re this Recommendation.

KOKO Sadsac

[historydavid]

ajh,

quote "Of the ships he served on (that I am aware of from records) I can only find references to the Zaria"

I think it would help if you could post the names of ships that you have, because it is possible that a trawler or drifter decoy vessel was attached to Zaria, masquerading as an A/P ship.

If you have an official record the ships would be shown as: ZARIA (xxxxx).

Best wishes

David

[ajhpayne]

The only records I have regarding the ships that James Payne served on from 1914-18 are on this page - http://www.paynefamilyonline.com/photoalbu...p?g2_itemId=803

Other than the Zaria, there are 2 periods when he served on what I interpret as the Mingary. The writing is unclear on both documents.

Can you check the captain signature from the Zaria document. I think it could be Purey Cust. Again it's hard to read.

It seems each time I check I find a little more, thanks so much for your help.

I also found out today that some records for RNR are held at Yeovilton in Dorset, so I am going to check with them.

[spithead]

Hello Jim

HMS MINGARY Yacht Pendant No 041, 591 tons launched 1899, armament 2-6 pdr. Hired as A/P Yt 29.1.1915 - 23.3.19.

Regards John