Remains of French Soldier Albert Dadure Recovered in Massiges

[ph0ebus]

Amazing!

Here's the story:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/13/remains-french-wwi-soldier-albert-dadure_n_3751062.html

And here's his paperwork:

Glad he will soon be receiving a fitting burial.

:poppy:

-Daniel

[Seadog]

Thanks for posting the link Daniel it is good that this man will get a dignified named burial after such a long time. I had no idea about Massiges but a quick Google and a click on Images gives a large number of photos of the area:

Norman

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=massiges+france&rlz=1R2ADRA_enGB418&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=prcRUpDwGqXP0QXynoDwAw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=662#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=ceae88b016e47e28&q=massiges&sa=1&tbm=isch

[NigelS]

Not sure whether the recent discoveries of nine bodies at La Main de Massiges, reported on the Daily Telegraph website: Archaeologists uncover WWI soldiers 100 years on has already been mentioned elsewhere, but it looks as if these, also being from a trench excavation/restoration in the same area, might be the same site where Albert Dadure was found last year.

I might be being a bit oversensitive, and I appreciate that the investigation of the skeletal remains is important for research and identification purposes, but must question whether it isn't disrespectful to display them publically in the way they have been in the video report; Skeletons from archaeological digs dating back thousands of years are often shown in the same way, but those are many, many generations distant, whereas these may have living descendants just one or two removed. (the stereotype, slightly eccentric, nerdy scientist/archaeologist type voice, more usually employed in comedy sketches, used for the translation voice-over - surprising they didn't go the whole hog by using a French accent - doesn't help either)

NigelS

[Seadog]

Spot-on Nigel ..............DISGUSTING and I hope I have made my position on these matters only too clear that the digging up of previously dormant WW1 battlefield sites for what appears to be principally to feed the egos of the so-called archeologists is to my mind ludicrous and then to display the human remains as has been shown on the video is showing a complete lack of respect for have no doubt that there are many families who have lost loved ones and for those perhaps who lost them here the sight of the bones being treated as they are must be a very painful experience indeed

Norman

PS I also see no difference between these human remains and the idiots on "Time Team" digging up Roman or Saxon cemeteries for no other reason than to make a programme for TV

[phil andrade]

French people, I daresay, feel differently from us about the exhibition of bones. Maybe it's something to do with Catholicism - although the French are far more secular in this regard than their counterparts in Spain, Portugal and Italy. But you have to look no further than the ossuary at Verdun to appreciate what I'm driving at here.

Phil (PJA)

[Seadog]

That’s all right then! But tell me if the French are not so sensitive why are there not such excavations on the Verdun battlefield which would have no problem in turning-up the dead both French and German. Here is a suggestion, start digging near the ruined village of Douaumont there should be some super finds there!.

Norman

[phil andrade]

Live and let live.

People differ ; folk in some cultures are not so disgusted as you are when it comes to the display of bones.

I don't like it : I was horrified by what I saw at Solferino.

Who are we to judge ?

Phil (PJA)

[healdav]

That’s all right then! But tell me if the French are not so sensitive why are there not such excavations on the Verdun battlefield which would have no problem in turning-up the dead both French and German. Here is a suggestion, start digging near the ruined village of Douaumont there should be some super finds there!.

Norman

1. There are digs around Verdun, not long ago several bodies - skeletons rather - were found at Fleury. The big difficulty at Verdun is the amount of UXB around. Thousands of tons of it (maybe hundreds of thousands of tons). In any case, have you ever been there, the battlefield is miles wide and deep. A dig would take forever.

2. How exactly is anyone supposed to identify these men without examining the skeletons?

3. What about all the skeletons, and parts of early man, lying in museums across the world. We would know nothing about our ancestors without them. Any archaeologist is desperate to find cemeteries, not just Time Team. They are biggest and best source of human remains (not surprisingly) and give the best possible clues to how people lived, their skeletal development (and ours, by evolution), and so on. We would know very little about even the Celts or Germanic tribes without cemetery and burial evidence.

[trajan]

Well, I haven't seen the video yet, but broadly speaking (with my archaeologist hat on), well said Healdav,

... 2. How exactly is anyone supposed to identify these men without examining the skeletons?

3. What about all the skeletons, and parts of early man, lying in museums across the world. We would know nothing about our ancestors without them. Any archaeologist is desperate to find cemeteries, not just Time Team. They are biggest and best source of human remains (not surprisingly) and give the best possible clues to how people lived, their skeletal development (and ours, by evolution), and so on. We would know very little about even the Celts or Germanic tribes without cemetery and burial evidence.

For all that I know the dig in question was occasioned by a proposed development on a known or probable grave site. In which case the excavation is a damn site more justifiable than the episode a few years back involving finding 'lost' burial pits and identifying the 'known' en buried in them. And even if the dig was not a rescue one, well, if we can find and identify these men, and properly re-bury them, who is really to object?

As to the second (third) point, I for one would love to earn more from their remains about the men who actually fought. Were they undernourished? Undersize? In general good health of bad?