Schrage musik

[PhilB]

I was under the impression that the Luftwaffe invented the "schrage musik" technique whereby nightfighters came up underneath bombers and fired a verticaly aimed machine gun up into the underside. Apparently very effective and the bombers literally never knew what hit them.

I now find that Albert Ball was using the same technique with a Lewis gun in WW1. Does he ever get credit for this or did someone else pre-date him? Phil B

[Frank_East]

Firing into the "soft under belly" of an aircraft was always garanteed to be succeessful to achieve a kill.In the both the Great War and Second World War, I would think that the technique was a result of innovation by the pilot attacking from below.This was the result of studying and developing the tactics of early air warfare over the Western Front.A question of striking a blow at the enemy before he can defend himself or initiate a counter blow. A similar tactic to attack "out of the sun".

However the Second World War some Luftwaffe Junkers 88C night fighter was designed with inclined dual 20mm cannons such that the pilot could fly horizontally under the enemy aircraft and direct his "slanted music" into the belly of an aircfraft without running the risk of a collision and retaliatory response from the enemy aircraft.

It would not surprise me that Oswald Boelcke would be at the head of this technique over the Western Front.

Regards

Frank East

[PhilB]

Frank, indications are that Ball didn`t just attack from below - he flew parallel and below with his MG angled up, exactly as WW2 Luftwaffe. Quote:- "There was a curved rail down which the gun had to be run to change drums. By exerting pressure on one side of the stock, Ball held it rigid when nearly down, pointing up at about 80 degrees...... a slight oscillation of the control stick caused his guns to rake the target fore and aft at a range of about 30 feet." It mentions that Hawker had done something similar in his DH2, but doesn`t say when.

Not being well informed on the RFC, I was surprised that what I thought was a WW2 invention was actually used in WW1. Phil B

[Frank_East]

Phil,

I think Ball's innovation was possible by the flexibility of the Lewis gun to be rearmed in the air and fired from the rearming postion as you point out.

The SE5s which carried two machine guns, a Vickers firing through the prop by means of the newly introduced Constantinesco gear and the Lewis gun which was fixed on a quadrant mounting on to the top main plane of the bi-plane and so fired over the prop. Mid air rearmanent was achieved by sliding the Lewis back on the quadrant from its forward firing position to the rearmanent position which was almost vertical and afforded easy access for changing drums from the cockpit seat.

From this position, ammunition drums could be changed by the pilot.Equally important it was possible for the Lewis to be fired in this almost vertical postion at the expense of not being able to use the forward gun.

Whether or not the design of installation was intended with the specification of vertical firing I do not know but as you say Ball obviously saw the advantage of another firing dimension whilst on horizontal flight.The technique was suitable to Ball's own solo sorties but not that demanded by team fighting and as a Flight Commander when he joined No 56 Squadron in late February 1917 he would have greater responsibility in managing his team in a dog fighting and formation discipline.

Regarding "slanted music", the technique was probably acknowledged by the Germans and led to the introduction of the system on some of the Luftwaffe night fighter types of World War 2 .These achieved good results particularly against RAF bomber streams on moonlit nights.

I will look to see if there are further references to the technique being utilised in the Great War.

Regards

Frank East

[Dolphin]

Frank

The RFC and RAF put considerable effort into developing a upwards-firing Lewis gun installation on night fighters, especially the Sopwith Camel. Early on in the Camel's night fighting career it was discovered that the muzzle flash from the standard twin Vickers guns could dazzle the pilot and destroy his night vision. Hence, on some Camel night fighters, twin Lewis guns on Foster mountings were installed over the upper wing, something that entailed moving the cockpit further aft. As the night fighters would usually be attacking from underneath their foe, having taken off when the raiders were approaching, the starboard Lewis was sometimes fixed to fire upwards at 45 degrees. A Neame illuminated sight was attached to both Lewis guns. A photo of a modified Camel night fighter is below.

You might ask "Why not simply use the SE5a, which already had a Lewis gun over the upper wing?" The primary reason was that the stationary engine of the SE took a comparitively long time to warm up, while the Camel's rotary could be ready to fly very soon after starting. In the days before radar, when warning of a raid came only when the approaching enemy came only when they had been sighted, this was important.

I understand that despite the British use of inclined weapons in 1918, in the Second World War the RAF heirarchy took a long time to accept that that the Luftwaffe were using the Schräge Musik installation. The Japanese Army Air Force used a similar mounting on twin engined night fighters battling the USAAF's B-29s.

Cheers

Gareth

[Frank_East]

Thanks Gareth for your detailed information.

Warfare throughout history has used technology to advance its effectiveness and advantage on the battlefield.Air warfare was no different and aided by the innovation of its practitioners,tactics were sought out,tried and tested, to outgun an enemy using the technology available.

I found AVM J.E Johnson's publication "Full Circle", "the story of air fighting"very interesting. Johnson who fought as a fighter pilot in the Second World War and Korean War points out that the air tactics of the subsequent wars had not changed a great deal from those that were learnt in the Great War.

Referring to the B29 raids on the Japanese mainland and innovation,I saw that a crew to frighten enemy fighters off their tail, introduced a dummy 30mm cannon in the tail of their aircraft alongside the existing twin 20mm cannons.This appeared to have the desired effect for they were seldom attacked from the rear.The Japanese fighters kept out of range and thinking the cannon was a new development were seen anxious to take photographs of the beast.

This innovation was brought about because the 20mm cannons were prone to jamming giving the crew little confidence in the weapon.I suppose once the problem had been identified,it would have been engineered out.

Regards

Frank East

[PhilB]

Talking of innovations, gents, any info on "flaming onions"?

[Patrickneame]

Frank

The RFC and RAF put considerable effort into developing a upwards-firing Lewis gun installation on night fighters, especially the Sopwith Camel.  Early on in the Camel's night fighting career it was discovered that the muzzle flash from the standard twin Vickers guns could dazzle the pilot and destroy his night vision.  Hence, on some Camel night fighters, twin Lewis guns on Foster mountings were installed over the upper wing, something that entailed moving the cockpit further aft.  As the night fighters would usually be attacking from underneath their foe, having taken off when the raiders were approaching, the starboard Lewis was sometimes fixed to fire upwards at 45 degrees.  A Neame illuminated sight was attached to both Lewis guns.  A photo of a modified Camel night fighter is below.

You might ask "Why not simply use the SE5a, which already had a Lewis gun over the upper wing?"  The primary reason was that the stationary engine of the SE took a comparitively long time to warm up, while the Camel's rotary could be ready to fly very soon after starting.  In the days before radar, when warning of a raid came only when the approaching enemy came only when they had been sighted, this was important.

I understand that despite the British use of inclined weapons in 1918, in the Second World War the RAF heirarchy took a long time to accept that that the Luftwaffe were using the Schräge Musik installation.  The Japanese Army Air Force used a similar mounting on twin engined night fighters battling the USAAF's B-29s.

Cheers

Gareth

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not unnaturally, I'm curious to know what a Neame illuminated sight is and why it is so called.

[Dolphin]

Patrick

The Neame sight was an illuminated ring gunsight, designed by Lt H B Neame of the RFC's Technical Directorate in late 1917. The sight was adjusted to the Gotha wingspan of 77 feet, so that when the wings exactly fitted the ring, the Gotha was 100 yards away. There were obvious problems with its use when the Giants, with their 138 feet wingspan, were introduced by the Germans.

I hope this helps.

Gareth

[Jack Sheldon]

No night fighter pilot fired his cannon up into the belly of a bomber deliberately unless he was tired of life. The technique was to formate under the stream and manouevre very close under one of the wings to hit one of the fuel tanks. Clearly this did not always work and instances where other bomber crews reported what they thought were 'scarecrow' shells [actually a fleeting silhouette in the flash of the bombs exploding of the last nanosecond of a bomber's life], demonstrated how it was that a number of nightfighter crews went down with the aircraft they had hit.

Jack

[the gunners dream]

Exactly what Jack states is true. Many night fighter pilots stated they also did this to give the bomber crews time to get out of the stricken aircraft.

One of the best examples of the use of Schrage Musik in WWII is the Nuremburg Raid on the 30th/31st March 1944.

A combination of weather and moonlit night gave the German night fighters an excellent advantage, many of them honed in on their targets without radar. The RAF lost 95 bombers that night, the biggest loss of WWII.

A lot of the kills that night were by Schrage Musik.

An excellent book I'd recommend anyone read regarding this raid is The Nuremburg Raid 30th/31st March 1944 by Martin Middlebrook.See the link below:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...2520132-2826858

This book covers Schrage Musik, their attacks and also the myth of the Scarecrow, which many aircrews to this day still believe existed. One particular night fighter ace shot down 2 bombers, flying in formation with one another, by schrage musik, in quick succession. All this is documented in the book.

A lot of the myths surround Scarescrow comes the fact that because the night fighter pilots fired into the engine/fuel tank it was only a matter of time before the aircraft exploded. There are recorded accounts of German crews firing their Schrage Musik and willing the bomber crews to get out, which, for the most part, they never did.

Steve Smith