use of flamethrowers

[Guest kris777]

http://www.1914-1918.net/firstsnlasts.htm

On 30th July 1915, units of the German 126th Regiment launched an attack using flammenwerfer against the 14th (Light) Division holding front-line positions at Hooge in the Ypres salient. This attack, whilst generally expected as the British had successfully attacked and captured ground here a few days before, was laucnhed with great secrecy and achieved great surprise. It caused large number sof casualties to the British defenders, and pushed the enemy line forward. However, although the flamethrower remained a fearsome weapon, British infantry soon learned to deal with the slow-moving men carrying the cumbersome equipment. The British Army did not adopt the weapon.

Why didn't the British Army adopt the flamethrower, was it impractical on the WF or just too dangerous to the soldier using it?

[Arnie]

The British Army also experimented with flame-throwers. However, they found short-range jets inefficient. They also developed four 2-ton thrower that could send a flame over 30 yards. These were introduced in July 1916 but within a couple of weeks two had been destroyed. Although these large flame-throwers initially created panic amongst German soldiers, the British were unable to capture the trenches under attack. With this failure, the British generals decided to abandon the use of flame-throwers.

If you would like to click on the web address shown below there is a good article on Flame throwers

WW1 Flamethrowers

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Was there an RE Special Coy allocated the task of using this weapon and if so does anyoine know which one?

Ian

[tintin1689]

I believe they came under Colonel Ffoulkes and his "Special Brigade, RE"

[PhilB]

Just think - if they`d caught on we could be collecting medals & badges to the FTC (Flame Thrower Corps). Interesting to speculate what their badge would have been. A fried egg rampant, perhaps.

Judging by the reaction of the PBI when trench mortars appeared amongst them, one can imagine that those 2 tonne flame throwers would not have been popular in the front line. Phil B

[Malcolm]

I thought they preferred the Oil Can projector which did a similar thing.

The French certainly used flamethrowers around Soisson in 1918.

Aye

Malcolm

[Robert Dunlop]

French flamethrower units also supported the Big Red One in it's attack on Campigny in 1918.

As for the British, the two-man flamethrower did live on. It was used in the Zeebrugge Raid for example and a few times in 1917. Several one-man designs had been looked at but their dangers were apparent in trials, as well as their limitations. One problem for the British was the lack of fuel for flamethrowers. However, a bigger problem was the liquid nature of the flammable contents. It took the development of the gel, napalm, to make flamethrowers into a more useable weapon.

Livens, who was in Foulke's Special Brigade (Z Company), was responsible for the development of the two types of flamethrower that saw action on the Somme. As mentioned above, the results were poor. The effort needed to install the fixed units was prohibitive. Both types had too short a range and too little fuel. Haig was supposedly not keen, so all things combined to ensure that development and use of flamethrowers lapsed.

By way of contrast, the Germans continued to develop and use flammenwerfer. Reddemann's unit (Flammenwerfer Abteilung Reddemann) was responsible for 653 flammenwerfer attacks in support of various actions during the war. For the Germans, the thick black clouds generated by the fuel oils were just as important as the flames. One of the other characteristics considered useful was the ability of the flames to track round bends in trenches. The flammenwerfer often heralded the presence of stosstruppen.

Livens experiments took a different direction. He toyed with projectors to hurl drums of flaming oil onto objectives. These were used on a few occassions, for example to ignite a wood in one of the battles on the Somme. A similar attack was used to support the New Zealand Division assault on Le Quesnoy. From this work, the Livens projector was evolved. This became a lethal tool for launching tons of gas onto static German positions. The Germans used the same thing to open up Caporetto.

All of the above reflects some of the nastier efforts of a murderous war.

Robert

[Somme1916]

Livens experiments took a different direction. He toyed with projectors to hurl drums of flaming oil onto objectives. These were used on a few occassions, for example to ignite a wood in one of the battles on the Somme.

Robert,

Any idea which wood? This is the first I think I've heard of this.

Jon

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

I believe they came under Colonel Ffoulkes and his "Special Brigade, RE"

Ian - Many thanks - IanB

[Robert Dunlop]

Any idea which wood? This is the first I think I've heard of this.

Jon

Probably because it was not a huge success. From Foulkes' history of the Special Brigade:

'Thirty more [oil-projectors, others had previously been used to support an attack on Pozieres] were fired successfully at the eastern corner of High Wood on 18th August, and an encouraging report of the damage done was made by the 2nd Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, who said that they met with no opposition from the sector on which the drums fell'.

'On 3rd September at High Wood two batteries of oil-projectors were dug in. [One was wiped out but the other] worked well and... assisted the infantry attack. The range by this time had increased to 280 yards.'

On October 1st, in support of the NZ Division, 'liquid fire bombs were fired into German trenches at zero, causing heavy casualties. Two groups of dead Germans, 15 and 20 bodies respectively, were found badly burned and hardly recognisable. On this occasion, thirty-six oil-drums were projected into the German trench one minute before zero, and the infantry advanced on an objective blazing all along its extent and blotted out by a dense cloud of black smoke.'

'The discharge of [1500] oil-drums [into Bois de Wytschaete, Grand Bois and Unnamed Wood] by "O" and "K" Companies on the night of the 3rd (June, 1917 - Battle of Messines) was the biggest operation of the kind that we undertook during the war and although the drums exploded well and ignited the undergrowth, and the targets were seen to be a mass of smoke and flames and to be burning for an hour, few traces of the projectiles were to be found when the positions were visited on the 8th.'

My reference is specifically to the latter. I don't believe the attacks on High Wood were designed to fire the wood - not that there was much left to fire.

Robert

[Robert Dunlop]

Sorry, I should have added that all of the earlier dates refer to 1916 and the Battle of the Somme. I am just going to check in another reference book if there was any other attack on woods in the Somme.

Robert

[Robert Dunlop]

I am just going to check in another reference book if there was any other attack on woods in the Somme.

No, not that I can find

Robert

[BMoorhouse]

'On 3rd September at High Wood two batteries of oil-projectors were dug in. [One was wiped out but the other] worked well and... assisted the infantry attack. The range by this time had increased to 280 yards.'

On the 3rd September 1916 "Liquid fire" was projected at a German machinegun emplacement near Arrow Head Copse (near Guillemont) just before the attack.

A busy day for the engineers.

Brendon.

[Somme1916]

'On 3rd September at High Wood two batteries of oil-projectors were dug in. [One was wiped out but the other] worked well and... assisted the infantry attack. The range by this time had increased to 280 yards.'

Thank you Robert. I had forgotten about the two used at High Wood.

Isn't one supposed to still be buried some where near there? I think I read somewhere, maybe in "The Hell They Called High Wood", that the one which didn't work was abandoned and it's position was subsequently lost so it was never recovered?

Jon